KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

[Tangband]

Here is a review where they compare ls50w II with subwoofer against ls60w.
You can use autotranslation to english If needed . The conlusion is interesting.

 

[thewas]

Here is a review where they compare ls50w II with subwoofer against ls60w.
You can use autotranslation to english If needed . The conlusion is interesting.

Integrating a sub isn't trivial and in my experience needs many measurements, which is the biggest difference (lower bass) they mention. Thus I agree that for users who just want a "plug and play" solution the LS60 would be the definitively better solution.

 

[Tangband]

Integrating a sub isn't trivial and in my experience needs many measurements, which is the biggest difference (lower bass) they mention. Thus I agree that for users who just want a "plug and play" solution the LS60 would be the definitively better solution.

Agree . They shouldnt have put the subwoofer so far away from the wall, and If they had used two subwoofers, one at each side of the ls50w II, they could have crossed the subwoofer a little higher in frequency without any drawbacks.

Two ls60w have 8 bassdrivers, while the small Kef subwoofer only have 2. There should be differences in less distortion from the 8 driver approach.

I also think after my own experiments ( but I dont have all the facts to back this up yet ) that having the subwoofers a bit above the floor as done in ls60w or Kef Blade is beneficial for the sound. At least one gets away with a high crossover frequency in this way ( 350 Hz ) .

 

[Absolute]

I also think after my own experiments ( but I dont have all the facts to back this up yet ) that having the subwoofers a bit above the floor as done in ls60w or Kef Blade is beneficial for the sound. At least one gets away with a high crossover frequency in this way ( 350 Hz ) .

I call this the good ole' "robbing mom to pay dad" predicament. There's certainly benefits to be had by having woofer close to the ground because then you'll have no floor cancellation in the important upper bass, but if you cross it too high it will probably affect the imaging.

 

[sifi36]

I’ve had a chance to listen to these in an approx 15-20sqm lightly treated room at a local dealer. They left me to it for half an hour with all my own music choices. Playback was at up to 90dB average at 2.5m as measured by my iPhone. Whilst this isn’t the most accurate way of measuring, it should be a reasonably representative ballpark figure. This is significantly louder than I would generally listen to at home but headroom is nice to have

In terms of design and ease of use of the app, everything was great. They appear even smaller in reality than I had expected. Fit and finish is excellent.

Imaging and phantom centre was excellent, tracking sound moving across the stage was super clear, as it is on all well made coaxial loudspeakers. I’d say on all of these metrics, they’re a clear improvement on the Kef Reference 207, which are up to now, the best speakers I’ve heard.

Tonality was excellent with some real punch at the low end. My reference for tonality is the Dan Clark Aeon Noire (about as Harman compliant as headphones get once you shelve down the high treble by a couple of dB). I found the treble to be spot on for my taste though this is easily tweaked in the app. Bass was …. interesting. Rack City by Tyga has lots of content at 30Hz and got the whole room rumbling as it should. Just One Second (Apex remix) by London Elektricity has a very prominent bass line throughout and there was one particular note that just wasn’t particularly present. This is either a room mode or the bass limiting kicking in. In fairness, if it is the latter, 90dB average at 2.5m is very loud so I’m unlikely to reach these levels at home very often.

I have the LS60 on my shortlist with the Genelec 8351b. The Kef are nicer to look at, have everything built in, don’t need stands, and are at least 20% cheaper once dealer discount is accounted for, and even more than that when considering I’d need to buy stands and a streamer with HDMI eARC capability, such as a Bluesound Node to go with the Genelec.

Relative to the Genelec they lack room correction and don’t have the same reliability and support record, though this is a risk I’m willing to take for the substantial saving with this particular comparison. I’m now certain I’ll want a subwoofer or two to deal with room modes and limiting regardless of which way I go, integration with room correction is key and might just push me to the Genelec, though I’d rather not if I don’t have to.

Who knows, maybe they are already working on Dirac integration as we speak..

The fact that this post has been liked by @AOR, who appears to be a Kef employee/insider based on their previous postings is very interesting. Might make me hold off on making a decision in the short term.

 

[AudioGod66]

Some of the argument people have against active speakers is the risk of failure. Darko has some good thoughts about this : ( cant link )

” Active loudspeakers: some of the strongest pushback I see online comes from those concerned about an amplifier module inside the cabinet eventually failing. Having to ship a faulty loudspeaker back to the local distributor or manufacturer is definitely a pain in the rear. But is it really any more of an inconvenience than having to send in one’s integrated amplifier? Whether the amplifier is external to the speaker or sits inside the speaker cabinet, a failure translates to ‘no more hi-fi until it’s fixed’.”

It is a huge Nightmare - I have $15 k of dead active loudspeakers - I am holding off from these LS60 . I have used active speakers for 20 years -as technology outdates and the company can no longer source chips etc. Or the company -example NHT with the XDA series goes broke or reorganises. You just do not have the problem with passive loudspeakers. Anyway I think of the Kef ls 50 wireless 1 - boy they ripped off truckloads with that garbage - how many are desperately trying to dump that crap. The support for that product is almost zero

 

[Tangband]

It is a huge Nightmare - I have $15 k of dead active loudspeakers - I am holding off from these LS60 . I have used active speakers for 20 years -as technology outdates and the company can no longer source chips etc. Or the company -example NHT with the XDA series goes broke or reorganises. You just do not have the problem with passive loudspeakers. Anyway I think of the Kef ls 50 wireless 1 - boy they ripped off truckloads with that garbage - how many are desperately trying to dump that crap. The support for that product is almost zero

Hmm … This problem goes away if one go active with external amplifiers and dsp. I have been on that route before, and I must say that it was a relief to go active with Genelec because of all the cables needed with external amplifiers in my former active system.
For me, a passive system is simply to bad performing to be able to live with in the long run - and I have listened to many speakers trough the years.

Sonos , Bose, Genelec and such has also proven that their active designs with everything built inside the cabinet are reliably.

 

[AudioGod66]

Hmm … This problem goes away if one go active with external amplifiers and dsp. I have been on that route before, and I must say that it was a relief to go active with Genelec because of all the cables needed with external amplifiers in my former active system.
For me, a passive system is simply to bad performing to be able to live with in the long run - and I have listened to many speakers trough the years.

Sonos , Bose, Genelec and such has also proven that their active designs with everything built inside the cabinet are reliably.

Well I will ship over my boxes of useless garbage and show me how much you enjoy them ? When I say say 20 years plus I mean it - Genelec could go broke tomorrow after all you have declared war on your neighbour lets see how your dsp works in 7 years with no tech or electricity

 

[Tangband]

Well I will ship over my boxes of useless garbage and show me how much you enjoy them ? When I say say 20 years plus I mean it - Genelec could go broke tomorrow after all you have declared war on your neighbour lets see how your dsp works in 7 years with no tech or electricity

You got a point.
But this issue is also true with computers , mobilephones and all other tech that demands upgrades and electricity.
Maybe new dsp loudspeakers will go the same way ? Maybe its even good for the industry that they can sell more speakers after 7 years ?

 

[AudioGod66]

Hmm … This problem goes away if one go active with external amplifiers and dsp. I have been on that route before, and I must say that it was a relief to go active with Genelec because of all the cables needed with external amplifiers in my former active system.
For me, a passive system is simply to bad performing to be able to live with in the long run - and I have listened to many speakers trough the years.

Sonos , Bose, Genelec and such has also proven that their active designs with everything built inside the cabinet are reliably.

Apologies Tangband -seriously you are kidding regards DSP active now as chips become obsolete the products become useless. Many surface mounted chips etc are so hard to repair -they are throw away. Note I have zero criticism of Genelec sound quality ! However nothing lasts forever

 

[Absolute]

All we need to know to endlessly self-support active speakers is the dsp-settings and amplifier gain settings on the models. In that case we can have outboard amp/dsp and never worry about anything other than drivers failing.

But I whole-heartedly agree about closed systems with in-built electronics. Stupid idea.

 

[Vacceo]

I’ve had a chance to listen to these in an approx 15-20sqm lightly treated room at a local dealer. They left me to it for half an hour with all my own music choices. Playback was at up to 90dB average at 2.5m as measured by my iPhone. Whilst this isn’t the most accurate way of measuring, it should be a reasonably representative ballpark figure. This is significantly louder than I would generally listen to at home but headroom is nice to have

In terms of design and ease of use of the app, everything was great. They appear even smaller in reality than I had expected. Fit and finish is excellent.

Imaging and phantom centre was excellent, tracking sound moving across the stage was super clear, as it is on all well made coaxial loudspeakers. I’d say on all of these metrics, they’re a clear improvement on the Kef Reference 207, which are up to now, the best speakers I’ve heard.

Tonality was excellent with some real punch at the low end. My reference for tonality is the Dan Clark Aeon Noire (about as Harman compliant as headphones get once you shelve down the high treble by a couple of dB). I found the treble to be spot on for my taste though this is easily tweaked in the app. Bass was …. interesting. Rack City by Tyga has lots of content at 30Hz and got the whole room rumbling as it should. Just One Second (Apex remix) by London Elektricity has a very prominent bass line throughout and there was one particular note that just wasn’t particularly present. This is either a room mode or the bass limiting kicking in. In fairness, if it is the latter, 90dB average at 2.5m is very loud so I’m unlikely to reach these levels at home very often.

I have the LS60 on my shortlist with the Genelec 8351b. The Kef are nicer to look at, have everything built in, don’t need stands, and are at least 20% cheaper once dealer discount is accounted for, and even more than that when considering I’d need to buy stands and a streamer with HDMI eARC capability, such as a Bluesound Node to go with the Genelec.

Relative to the Genelec they lack room correction and don’t have the same reliability and support record, though this is a risk I’m willing to take for the substantial saving with this particular comparison. I’m now certain I’ll want a subwoofer or two to deal with room modes and limiting regardless of which way I go, integration with room correction is key and might just push me to the Genelec, though I’d rather not if I don’t have to.



The fact that this post has been liked by @AOR, who appears to be a Kef employee/insider based on their previous postings is very interesting. Might make me hold off on making a decision in the short term.

I can consider all your words mine with an extra component: I really wish KEF hinted if they are considering the potential to, somehow, create a multichannel environment for the LS family. The presence of HDMI in the LS50WII/60/LSX II tells me that Kef has film and TV content in mind, so the capacity to increase channels would be a great possibility.

The capacity to send digital signal to each one of the satellites (as each speaker has a DSP, a DAC and an amp) and the options for fine tunning each and every channel combined with elements such as the center wide on Dolby Atmos or the layering in Auro sound incredibly interesting.

 

[AudioGod66]

All we need to know to endlessly self-support active speakers is the dsp-settings and amplifier gain settings on the models. In that case we can have outboard amp/dsp and never worry about anything other than drivers failing.

But I whole-heartedly agree about closed systems with in-built electronics. Stupid idea.

Yes DEQX Never gave me the details for the NHT XDA system ! And I puke every time I hear the BS about there great service - also even though I insisted I would pay could you fix the DEXQ part of the NHT XDA - Yes the worst service I have ever got with any product - anyway DEXQ service consists of you hand over your credit card and they will do a remote access and charge! Any other help well if you own Stereonet yes Rolls-Royce! Guy who asks can you translate the NHT XDA files to DEXQ - yes I even purchased another DEQX -anyway so all active has faults and the company's who back there products are legends -DEQX - Zero out of ten
PS - the help for me to get the NHT XDA system working again had already been given to other people - a setup file in the correct format - I emailed twice and Never got a reply -Thanks Bankrupt DEQX! service is important
No crap on Kef -long live the LS 60 - I will wait till the dust settles !

 

[TSB]

All we need to know to endlessly self-support active speakers is the dsp-settings and amplifier gain settings on the models. In that case we can have outboard amp/dsp and never worry about anything other than drivers failing.

But I whole-heartedly agree about closed systems with in-built electronics. Stupid idea.

I think this is a bit one-sided. I'd say integrated electronics are a good idea that have a host of technical advantages but also a disadvantage in terms of reliability. Engineering is about trade-offs after all.

 

[Absolute]

I think this is a bit one-sided. I'd say integrated electronics are a good idea that have a host of technical advantages but also a disadvantage in terms of reliability. Engineering is about trade-offs after all.

Integrated electronics have no technical advantage over placing them outside the speaker in my eyes.

 

[Tangband]

Integrated electronics have no technical advantage over placing them outside the speaker in my eyes.

If the manufacturer have done it right - there can be advantages with everything inbuilt - the manufacturer can for instance use amplifiers with the best output impedance for each driver .
And have protection circuits so the drivers dont overload.

 

[Absolute]

Does it need to be inside the cabinet to do that?

 

[tktran303]

That sad truth is that consumer electronics is disposable.

Like a TV; the manufacturer doesn’t think you’re going to use it for 20 years. They don’t expect (nor necessarily want) you to use your speakers for 20 years.

Like a motor vehicle if you look after it and service it, Passive speakers are one of the few items that can last a long time. I’m one of the minority who keeps his car until end of life (20+ years) even though my accountant insists I should change every few years as an effective tax strategy.

What a perverse universe.

I hear the average age of motor vehicles in the US is 10 years. The manufacturers want you to upgrade soon after this. They don’t really want you hanging onto your car for 20-30 years.

 

[Mnyb]

That sad truth is that consumer electronics is disposable.

Like a TV; the manufacturer doesn’t think you’re going to use it for 20 years. They don’t expect (nor necessarily want) you to use your speakers for 20 years.

Like a motor vehicle if you look after it and service it, Passive speakers are one of the few items that can last a long time. I’m one of the minority who keeps his car until end of life (20+ years) even though my accountant insists I should change every few years as an effective tax strategy.

What a perverse universe.

I hear the average age of motor vehicles in the US is 10 years. The manufacturers want you to upgrade soon after this. They don’t really want you hanging onto your car for 20-30 years.

For the asking price of the LS60 I hope/ask/demand they last 20 years .
For 1/10 price I just buy them and take my chances of 5-10 years

 

[tktran303]

How long does a phone or laptop last? People in "the industry" will say 3 years...

Soon you'll be rebooting your speakers..