KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

[MattHooper]

Honestly, the LS60w announcement has been eye-opening for me.

I used to think the borderline tribalism against active/ all in one speakers was about people feeling like a newer, alternative approach to Hi-Fi undermines their own systems.

I think there may be something in that for some audiophiles.

I don't think it quite describes my own reaction, though I do think I have something of an "old school audiophile" approach.

So I'm both "interested" and "not interested" in the LS60.

I'm very interested to hear it, because I love hearing different speaker designs, and this one is very intriguing. I bet it sounds fantastic.

On the other hand, I'm in the tube amp/playing lots of vinyl camp and do enjoy some of the tweakiness of that approach. Speakers that become "all the same" commodities
hold little interest for me in terms of what I'm likely to buy. Takes all the fun out of it

(btw...I know that audiophiles are gonna audiophile, and many will still find enough in even active speaker technology to keep themselves interested an engaged, even if it's playing with dialing in DSP etc).

 

[jkonst]

Given there isn’t a dedicated center speaker in this family, what would a 5.0 LS setup look like… 2x LS60w, 2x LS50w II, 1x LS50 Meta (sold as LS50c)? Seems a shame to have the center not be active in that arrangement, but I’m not sure if there’s an alternative - maybe buy another set of LS50w IIs and just use one?

(For the record, this is something I’m actively considering taking the plunge on.)

 

[Vacceo]

Given there isn’t a dedicated center speaker in this family, what would a 5.0 LS setup look like… 2x LS60w, 2x LS50w II, 1x LS50 Meta (sold as LS50c)? Seems a shame to have the center not be active in that arrangement, but I’m not sure if there’s an alternative - maybe buy another set of LS50w IIs and just use one?

(For the record, this is something I’m actively considering taking the plunge on.)

The problem on a setup like that is in decoding and coordinating the multichannel data.

 

[KMO]

The problem on a setup like that is in decoding and coordinating the multichannel data.

Same problem you have with passive speakers.

A common solution that works for those and these is to plug them into an AV receiver.

 

[Vacceo]

Same problem you have with passive speakers.

A common solution that works for those and these is to plug them into an AV receiver.

How do you do that on the secondary units?

 

[KMO]

You connect the primary units to your source, and they transmit data to the secondary units. It's a sort of black magic, which I believe even works in 2-channel setups.

In multichannel, it's truly arcane. jkonst's setup would be

FL+FR pre-outs ->LS60 primary
SL+SR pre-outs -> LS50WII primary

 

[Vacceo]

For HT, channels have the tendency to be independent and not work in pairs.

 

[KMO]

For HT, channels have the tendency to be independent and not work in pairs.

What does that mean?

Is that why we have to use monoblock amplifiers, and stereo ones don't work?

 

[Vacceo]

What does that mean?

Is that why we have to use monoblock amplifiers, and stereo ones don't work?

The signal for multichannel in an AVR/processor goes to a particular speaker. On the LS60/50WII the connection goes in pairs, you cannot connect a single speaker to a single output channel.

 

[KMO]

You connect two speakers to two channels. This really isn't hard.

(But it is quite funny).

 

[Vacceo]

You connect two speakers to two channels. This really isn't hard.

(But it is quite funny).

How? The secondary unit has a subwoofer out, and an RJ45 connection.

 

[KMO]

Do you understand how to plug a pair of LS60 Wireless speakers into a 2-channel analogue source? Using 2 RCA connectors to the primary speaker?

It's possible to get the left channel out of the secondary speaker on the left despite it not having an RCA connector and you only connecting to the right speaker! (I've heard some say that this is not in fact magic, but is something to do with the "Wireless" in the name).

If you don't understand this, go and read the manual.

Once you've grasped that, try to imagine doing exactly the same thing but with 2 channels of a multichannel analogue source.

In case you're not aware, receivers have "pre-out" connections with one RCA connector for each channel. So take 2 of those to the primary of each speaker pair.

 

[KMO]

Although practically speaking, I do think the star configuration of one wire from each passive speaker to an AVR is probably ultimately simpler.

I don't know how well multiple LS60-style pairs running wireless will work in one room. They can theoretically do it, I believe, but how solid is it in practice?

So I'd want to run the RJ45 interconnects between pairs, which could well mean running cables left-to-right across the room, assuming you're pairing that way. But at least you'd only have to run the AVR RCA cable pairs up one side of the room. Still need all the mains connections too.

 

[Mnyb]

I would propbaly go for the wired interspeaker connection, I usally do that, stationary things get's cables . Using wifi for everything at home will set you up for quite many glithes and ocasional fails. Regarding how much conected stuff one have , I think its good to leave the wifi for the phones tablets and laptops one migth carry around at home and conect everything else with actual cables

 

[jkonst]

Ah, I probably should have clarified that (if I go down this path) I intend to connect the speakers from my AVR pre-outs, as KMO has laid out. It sounds like the pre-outs would go to the primary speaker of each, and another wire would connect primary to secondary (I need to read the manual!).

I haven’t thought this all the way through (like what kind of delays does this setup introduce/is gaming still feasible). But the size to performance ratio on these speakers is certainly appealing (while still using floorstanders up front, which is my preference) - I’m aiming to have a 5.2.4 setup in my small-ish living room.

 

[KMO]

I haven’t thought this all the way through (like what kind of delays does this setup introduce/is gaming still feasible). But the size to performance ratio on these speakers is certainly appealing (while still using floorstanders up front, which is my preference) - I’m aiming to have a 5.2.4 setup in my small-ish living room.

It vaguely crossed my mind for about 5 seconds when weighing up LS50 Meta versus LS50 Wireless II for multichannel.

Basically, the huge cost difference for not that much gain ruled it out.

LS60 Wireless somewhat changes the equation - it's not as if they have a close passive equivalent.

I'd expect gaming latency to be tolerable.

We haven't seen latency figures reported for the LS60 Wireless, but the LS50 Wireless II is quoted as 6ms worst case, with phase correction on. Unless something has changed massively for no reason, LS60 with phase correction on will be somewhat higher, but if you keep it off it should be a small number of milliseconds. (Compared to the 15ms or so I get using HDMI through an AVR with Audyssey). I don't know if the RJ45 leads to lower latency than wireless interconnect - it could well do.

And, actually, assuming the subs are DSP+active, you'd already have some DSP cost for them paid for in the overall latency, so active rather than passive mains wouldn't cost you the whole difference.

 

[Vacceo]

Although practically speaking, I do think the star configuration of one wire from each passive speaker to an AVR is probably ultimately simpler.

I don't know how well multiple LS60-style pairs running wireless will work in one room. They can theoretically do it, I believe, but how solid is it in practice?

So I'd want to run the RJ45 interconnects between pairs, which could well mean running cables left-to-right across the room, assuming you're pairing that way. But at least you'd only have to run the AVR RCA cable pairs up one side of the room. Still need all the mains connections too.

Many people over here have made the educated guess that the LS50W/60 work, wireless, in WiSa even if not openly stated as such. The bitrates are, effectively, the same as WiSa.

If that were the case, 8 speakers could work synchronized. Still, with RJH45 jacks, it could be theoretically possible to daisy chain or hook up all speakers to a central hub. If that were the case, add room calibration, spatial decoding (Atmos, DTS X...) and the need for an AVR is completely bypassed.

And I´d applaud that possibility, to be honest.

 

[jkonst]

It vaguely crossed my mind for about 5 seconds when weighing up LS50 Meta versus LS50 Wireless II for multichannel.

Basically, the huge cost difference for not that much gain ruled it out.

LS60 Wireless somewhat changes the equation - it's not as if they have a close passive equivalent.

I'd expect gaming latency to be tolerable.

We haven't seen latency figures reported for the LS60 Wireless, but the LS50 Wireless II is quoted as 6ms worst case, with phase correction on. Unless something has changed massively for no reason, LS60 with phase correction on will be somewhat higher, but if you keep it off it should be a small number of milliseconds. (Compared to the 15ms or so I get using HDMI through an AVR with Audyssey). I don't know if the RJ45 leads to lower latency than wireless interconnect - it could well do.

And, actually, assuming the subs are DSP+active, you'd already have some DSP cost for them paid for in the overall latency, so active rather than passive mains wouldn't cost you the whole difference.

Yeah, that all makes sense - I was also considering 2x LS60 + 3x LS50 Meta + 2 small subs (KEF KC62/KF92 or SVS 3000 Micro). It certainly is more cost-effective going that route than going active all the way around.

By the way, if you ended up going with LS50 Metas in a multichannel setup - are you running one as your center, as well? (And thanks for the input!)

 

[KMO]

Yeah, that all makes sense - I was also considering 2x LS60 + 3x LS50 Meta + 2 small subs (KEF KC62/KF92 or SVS 3000 Micro). It certainly is more cost-effective going that route than going active all the way around.

By the way, if you ended up going with LS50 Metas in a multichannel setup - are you running one as your center, as well? (And thanks for the input!)

I've got 7 LS50 Meta, including centre, and one KF92. I have a thing about all-round-matching speakers, so made the process fairly easy. Ruled out lots of more expensive L+R options. I prioritise multichannel, so I'm hardly ever running pure 2-channel - I'll upmix almost everything.

I'd feel a bit sad about having a relatively underpowered centre, so not sure that a LS50 Meta is an ideal match for LS60 fronts. I'd say you'd at least want something 3-way like the R2c. (But maybe you can just say the LS60 is overpowered, if you're not really planning on going that loud. I have no volume complaints about my LS50 all the way round.)

 

[stren]

Given there isn’t a dedicated center speaker in this family, what would a 5.0 LS setup look like… 2x LS60w, 2x LS50w II, 1x LS50 Meta (sold as LS50c)? Seems a shame to have the center not be active in that arrangement, but I’m not sure if there’s an alternative - maybe buy another set of LS50w IIs and just use one?

(For the record, this is something I’m actively considering taking the plunge on.)

This is what the upcoming LS60C will be for - center the drivers and have it like a sound bar on top of a media center (it will need feet to raise it up for the 5" driver clearance). Then add surround decoding, wireless support for multichannel and dirac. (This product has not been rumored - but I figure if I talk about it enough then maybe Kef will do it ).

LS60C + LS60 Pair (LR) + 2x LS50WII Pair (surround) + 2x LSXII Pairs (Heights) + Subs = Killer 7.X.4 HT setup for ~$17K + subs.