Is there a better fullrange driver than Markaudio chn110 ?

[Tangband]

Looking at the measurements with dsp corrections of ppataki:s Markaudio chn110 speakers measures better than any other fullrange speaker I have seen measurements from.

Here is his building thread with all measurements :

Sphere shaped speakers with CHN110 drivers

Inspiring.:D Also in this thread, speakers were built with Ikea Blanda Matt bamboo salad bowls. I think you got inspiration from that thread: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sphere-shaped-speakers.49807/ You can also build a classic two-way speaker with a sphere shape...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here is my building thread with a ported chn110 :

Markaudio CHN 110 building and comparisons with Genelec 8340 SAM monitors

I have been building a pair of single driver loudspeakers just for fun this week. I have bought a pair of Markaudio chn110 drivers, and if this sounds good Im gonna buy the more expensive alpair model. Loudspeaker: Size : 24 * 19,5 ( baffle) * 106,5 cm ( about as high as the sibelius...

www.audiosciencereview.com

At my home, the sound is stunningly good with my chn110 after some dsp corrections with my WiiM PRO, much better sound overall than my former Genelec SAM 8340 monitors with SAM subwoofer. The stereoimage, details and bass is so much better articulated than my former Genelec gear.

So, my question is, : has anyone tried other more expensive Markaudio drivers or other fullrangedrivers from other brands that could be an improvement of the chn110 ? The Sibelius loudspeakers, that was the source of my own building with chn110 uses the more expensive alpair 10 . Maybe thats a better driver than chn110?

Markaudio also have the alpair 11MS that would fit into my speaker cabinet without extra wood work - its a driver thats without spider , a single suspension driver.

Is it worth it to buy a pair of Alpair 11MS driver ? Will it be an objective improvement over the cheaper chn110 ?

Alpair 11 MS | Markaudio

110mm Fullrange drive unit 7.2ohm Ferrite magnet State of the art full range drive unit with Mono Suspension and Negative Camber technologies 6in Grey or Gold colour magnesium alloy cone Operating range to 30KHz –very linear response Negative camber cone profile –extremely broad directivity...

www.markaudio.com

Here is some of ppataki:s measurements of his chn110 speaker, after dsp corrections :

Frequency response, phase:

Distortion:

Waterfall:

Please be welcome to suggest better fullrange drivers than this, verified with measurements ( if possible.)

 

[steve59]

Isn't dsp the great equalizer in this equation?

 

[Tangband]

Isn't dsp the great equalizer in this equation?

chn110 seems to sound rather good without corrections but needs baffle step correction and other frequency corrections like all fullrange drivers. Yes, a dsp PEQ is very useful.

 

[Rick Sykora]

I have heard mixed feedback about MarkAudio. Have not tried any due to lack of off-axis data when I last looked at them. Depending on size, there are more options now too. I have a decent Peerless, but they are harder to get as a consumer...

The Seas FU10 is comparable to the MU10 that Linkwitz used so it might be a worthwhile choice. Hope this helps a bit!

 

[Tangband]

I have heard mixed feedback about MarkAudio. Have not tried any due to lack of off-axis data when I last looked at them. Depending on size, there are more options now too. I have a decent Peerless, but they are harder to get as a consumer...

The Seas FU10 is comparable to the MU10 that Linkwitz used so it might be a worthwhile choice. Hope this helps a bit!

If I find a better driver for midrange and treble than chn110 I might build a ported, ls60 inspired speaker, keeping my two chn110 for bass duty up to 250 Hz and buying two more of those in two 50 liter cabinets ( two sidemounted chn110 at each upper side of each speaker, like in the picture. )

 

[jaakkopetteri]

I would first like to ask: by which exact measurement do you think it measures better than other fullrangers? FR for a single position can be DSP'd for any speaker. Distortion seems fine, but confounded by crossing to subs. Waterfall doesn't tell much either, as I assume it's an in-room measurement.

In the case of a full-range driver, nonlinearities like BL(x) are arguably very important. Considering how much MA seems to focus on exotic cone materials, I doubt they've done a particularly good job with the motor nonlinearities. Kartesian for example has the Wib120_vHE which seems fairly well optimized, but obviously quite limited in SPL

 

[ctrl]

Looking at the measurements with dsp corrections of ppataki:s Markaudio chn110 speakers measures better than any other fullrange speaker I have seen measurements from.

Here is some of ppataki:s measurements of his chn110 speaker, after dsp corrections :

Frequency response, phase:

A "linear speaker frequency response" (in-room measurement), measured at the listening position (LP), including all room reflections after the use of DSP, is not a quality characteristic of a driver.

If good sound requires a speaker frequency response that produces a linear in-room measurement at the listening position, then one can only infer that the speaker is extremely directional at high frequencies or/and the listening room is over-damped or/and the listener has serious hearing damage.

Additionally, the speaker shows over 1000 degrees of phase rotation in the 80-300Hz range. This could indicate an extreme use of narrow-band PEQ in this range - it can certainly trigger "interesting" spatial effects by extrem group delay, but it's also not a quality characteristic of a driver.

Some of the Markaudio drivers are really good drivers based on their measurement data. But this cannot be demonstrated through un-gated in-room measurements at the LP after heavy use of DSP.

 

[voodooless]

It’s not exactly full range on its own, but in a FAST system it should perform quite well if not playing too loud and too low:

2½″ SB65WBAC25-4 / Aluminum - Sbacoustics

Geometrically furrowed aluminum cone for extended usable frequency range, linear neodymium motor system for reduced distortion.

sbacoustics.com

Test Bench - SB Acoustics SB65WBAC25-4 2.5” full-range driver

Unquestionably, the 2” to 2.5” diameter full-range drivers are one of the most used transducers in consumer electronics. They are finding broad use in soundbars, and desktop speakers). Indonesian-based SB Acoustics sent its entry into this crowded field of play, the new SB65WBAC25-4.

audioxpress.com

 

[Tangband]

A "linear speaker frequency response" (in-room measurement), measured at the listening position (LP), including all room reflections after the use of DSP, is not a quality characteristic of a driver.

If good sound requires a speaker frequency response that produces a linear in-room measurement at the listening position, then one can only infer that the speaker is extremely directional at high frequencies or/and the listening room is over-damped or/and the listener has serious hearing damage.

Additionally, the speaker shows over 1000 degrees of phase rotation in the 80-300Hz range. This could indicate an extreme use of narrow-band PEQ in this range - it can certainly trigger "interesting" spatial effects by extrem group delay, but it's also not a quality characteristic of a driver.

Some of the Markaudio drivers are really good drivers based on their measurement data. But this cannot be demonstrated through un-gated in-room measurements at the LP after heavy use of DSP.

When I did my rather simple dsp corrections for my chn110 building, I measured only one speaker from a distance of 1 meter 200-20000 Hz, on axis and 15 degrees off axis, ( used the average function in audiotools and a line audio om1 ) and the frequencies below 200 Hz was measured from the listening position. I did two corrections between 200-20000 Hz. The final dsp settings with measurements from listening position used only a high Q shelving and a peq for the bass between 35-200 Hz. The rest was cured with correct speaker position.

 

[007Shorty]

I had great success with the Visaton B 80, but not so much with the SB Acoustics SB65. But that was more down to me than the SB65, I suspect.

The B 80 had great spatial imaging and sounded very natural and relaxed. Great voices. But I only ran it down to 250 Hz with the support of a subwoofer. I used a crossover with baffle step compensation and an on axis treble boost to get a balanced in room response. My design goal was a linear frequency response 20 degrees off-axis. I prefer full range drivers with high Qms (I cannot explain this).

The B 80 is identical in construction to the Omnes Audio BB3.5, which is also much cheaper but not available at the moment.

In terms of sound, it is recommended to provide the baffle opening of the full-range driver with a bevel that points into the housing. This prevents compression effects and reflections close to the driver.