Sphere shaped speakers with CHN110 drivers

[ppataki]

Happy to report that the cabinets are finished!

This is how they sound with NO DSP whatsoever:

New video by Peter Pataki

photos.app.goo.gl

I am really pleased with their sound but that is no surprise
I will integrate them with the sub and do the calibration then will post some measurements too - stay tuned!

 

[ernestcarl]

Happy to report that the cabinets are finished!

View attachment 350360
View attachment 350361

View attachment 350362

This is how they sound with NO DSP whatsoever:

New video by Peter Pataki

photos.app.goo.gl

I am really pleased with their sound but that is no surprise
I will integrate them with the sub and do the calibration then will post some measurements too - stay tuned!

The white paint appears to highlight the seam between the two bowls. Perhaps there’s a fix for it similar to how drywall guys make seams become invisible between drywall sheets with a layer of some compound and smoothing/sanding thereafter.

 

[Tangband]

Happy to report that the cabinets are finished!

View attachment 350360
View attachment 350361

View attachment 350362

This is how they sound with NO DSP whatsoever:

New video by Peter Pataki

photos.app.goo.gl

I am really pleased with their sound but that is no surprise
I will integrate them with the sub and do the calibration then will post some measurements too - stay tuned!

Very nice .
Do you think that there is a real difference in sound quality with those rounded cabinets compared to a conventional loudspeaker box , and it what way ?

 

[DanielT]

The white paint appears to highlight the seam between the two bowls. Perhaps there’s a fix for it similar to how drywall guys make seams become invisible between drywall sheets with a layer of some compound and smoothing/sanding thereafter.

It is not difficult to fix that, if ppataki feels like it. Just put on some filler and then, as you mention,start sanding and painting.

Speaking of fill in, here are some tips. Keep in mind that it can get hot when super glue is used:

 

[ppataki]

@ernestcarl @DanielT
You are right, I might spend a bit more time on that - on the other hand when you look at the speakers from 2-3 meters away it is really not annoying

This is how it looks like now (on a makeshift stand)

The idea with the white paint was to keep the texture of the bamboo but the result is not exactly what I expected so I might repaint it with chalk paint that will cover everything in white. But first things first I will need to do the sub integration and the calibration then decide if they are staying or not (replacing the big Fanes?)
If they stay, we will build a pair of appropriate stands too

Some subjective notes on the sound so far (without any DSP optimization):
- Sound stage is different compared to the Fanes; not sure how to describe it but I can actually hear that those big boxes are no longer 'in the way of the stage'.
- Sound is definitely more room-filling: when I stand up and start walking around the room I don't lose the upper frequency content - I assume that this is due to the fact that smaller full range drivers do not beam as much as bigger ones
- Sound is as 'live' and holographic as it is with the Fanes (and with any other full range driver for that matter - at least based on my experience with a dozen of them)
- Although I hear that the frequency response is far from being flat, these speakers are actually fun to listen to even without any DSP (this is very rare I must say)

Stay tuned for the measurements!

 

[ppataki]

Very nice .
Do you think that there is a real difference in sound quality with those rounded cabinets compared to a conventional loudspeaker box , and it what way ?

That is really hard to tell.....
To be honest I am not sure, I would probably lean towards saying no, it is not better
Best would be to measure these drivers in a traditional cabinet vs in these sphere cabinets but I am afraid I will not be able to do that unless my brother-in-law is willing to bring his speakers to my place so we could make a direct comparison (same room, same position). If that happens one day I will certainly share the measurements

 

[MAB]

Very nice .
Do you think that there is a real difference in sound quality with those rounded cabinets compared to a conventional loudspeaker box , and it what way ?

Harry F Olson studied this and published in AES a well-known and often-cited study in 1950:

https://www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/how.the.aes.began/olson_direct-radiator-loudspeaker-enclosures.pdf

I am eager to see off-axis measurements, since nobody seems to want to measure and post fullrangers' off-axis, and this sphere is somewhat good at deconvolving the intrinsic off-axis performance vs. cabinet/baffle induced effects.
And to be clear, fullrange speakers' off-axis performance is one of the defining properties, good and bad.

 

[ppataki]

since nobody seems to want to measure and post fullrangers' off-axis

Check this out although I am not sure if it counts since I did that from the MLP and the speaker was in the corner......

Fane 15-300TC 15" full range speaker based project

The 12" version is also extremely great! @Rednaxela https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/fane-sovereign-12-250tc-project-measurements.35301/ I would encourage you to give that a try

audiosciencereview.com

I am planning to do the same measurement with these spheres too

 

[MAB]

Check this out although I am not sure if it counts since I did that from the MLP and the speaker was in the corner......

Fane 15-300TC 15" full range speaker based project

The 12" version is also extremely great! @Rednaxela https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/fane-sovereign-12-250tc-project-measurements.35301/ I would encourage you to give that a try

audiosciencereview.com

I am planning to do the same measurement with these spheres too

Hey, thanks!

 

[rokr]

Happy to report that the cabinets are finished!

View attachment 350360
View attachment 350361

View attachment 350362

This is how they sound with NO DSP whatsoever:

New video by Peter Pataki

photos.app.goo.gl

I am really pleased with their sound but that is no surprise
I will integrate them with the sub and do the calibration then will post some measurements too - stay tuned!

I'm glad I inspired you into it. It's a fun project.
I actually ended up using a wooden ring as the base which lets me adjust the angle of the speaker.
I like the white, but i would go opaque white.
I see you didn't make a port. Did you use a low pass filter?
I used the CHR-70 drivers and while music sounds good, for some reason when watching tv, some of the female voices sounds a bit unstable. maybe i need to improve the dampening.
Anyway great job. You gave me a crave for salad

 

[ppataki]

I'm glad I inspired you into it. It's a fun project.

Thank you for the inspiration! It is indeed a really great idea and it works like a charm!

I see you didn't make a port. Did you use a low pass filter?

I only design/build closed cabinet speakers
I am using a high-pass filter at 80Hz crossed to my DIY subwoofer (you can see it in the video too in this post)

maybe i need to improve the dampening.

I have used vibrodamping sheets, felt and melamine foam (check out the previous posts here), I think it works really well, I can only recommend those

I am working on the measurements now, hopefully will be able to post them today, latest tomorrow
(struggling with the famous 'exclamation mark/imprecise measurement' issue with Dirac....really annoying, it practically renders Dirac useless)

 

[ppataki]

Here are some measurements performed at MLP (approx. 250cm from the speakers), no DSP applied whatsoever

Left channel FR and phase:

L+R channels:

L channel distortion:

L channel IR:

L channel GD:

L channel Waterfall:

L channel Wavelet:

Overall, not so horrible results compared to the fact that we are talking about a full range driver!

I will try to send the Dirac optimized measurements + the Spinorama measurements as well later this week but unfortunately I am battling with the infamous 'exclamation mark/imprecise measurement' issue in Dirac that actually renders Dirac useless....not sure if you guys have run into this issue already but it is freaking annoying....

 

[Tangband]

Here are some measurements performed at MLP (approx. 250cm from the speakers), no DSP applied whatsoever

Left channel FR and phase:
View attachment 351012

L+R channels:
View attachment 351013

L channel distortion:

View attachment 351014

L channel IR:
View attachment 351015

L channel GD:
View attachment 351016

L channel Waterfall:
View attachment 351017

L channel Wavelet:
View attachment 351018

Overall, not so horrible results compared to the fact that we are talking about a full range driver!

I will try to send the Dirac optimized measurements + the Spinorama measurements as well later this week but unfortunately I am battling with the infamous 'exclamation mark/imprecise measurement' issue in Dirac that actually renders Dirac useless....not sure if you guys have run into this issue already but it is freaking annoying....

Thanks very much for this! - the distortion seems low , exactly what I experience with this driver .

 

[Tangband]

A question : ...do you have any measurements on axis , and 15 degrees off axis , and 30 degrees off axis 1 meter from only one speaker, with gating or logarithmic sine sweep showing 200-20000 Hz, and with a 50 dB scale ?
The high frequency peak on axis will probably almost dissappear at about 15 degrees of axis .
( you maybe already have some measurements at hand ?)

Anyway - Im really happy with the measurements you already done and Im Inspired to try a sphere.

 

[ppataki]

And now some Spinorama measurements!

Please note that circumstances are far from ideal
The first set was made in the MLP (approx. 250cm) using 1/12 smoothing, speaker not too far from the corner

Here is the legend:

The second set was done 1 meter from the speaker

Would be quite interesting to compare these with the 15" Fane speakers...
(the MLP measurements)

Next step will be to post the Dirac-corrected measurements but as mentioned above that is not easy to do because of the exclamation mark issue
Dirac customer service told me last week that a new beta would be released this week where this issue shall be fixed - allegedly....
They said the same about the current beta last December....
I really don't know what those guys are doing, they are pretty much ruining whatever reputation they had left (I know that there are a lot of people out there having the same issue for at least 6 months now)

 

[Tangband]

And now some Spinorama measurements!

Please note that circumstances are far from ideal
The first set was made in the MLP (approx. 250cm) using 1/12 smoothing, speaker not too far from the corner

View attachment 351204

Here is the legend:

View attachment 351205View attachment 351206View attachment 351207


The second set was done 1 meter from the speaker

View attachment 351208

Would be quite interesting to compare these with the 15" Fane speakers...
(the MLP measurements)

Next step will be to post the Dirac-corrected measurements but as mentioned above that is not easy to do because of the exclamation mark issue
Dirac customer service told me last week that a new beta would be released this week where this issue shall be fixed - allegedly....
They said the same about the current beta last December....
I really don't know what those guys are doing, they are pretty much ruining whatever reputation they had left (I know that there are a lot of people out there having the same issue for at least 6 months now)

Edit : Thanks for the measurements !

 

[ppataki]

The question of speaker stands is getting resolved too
Ikea will help here again - enter the Lauters floor lamp!

We will do some minor modifications then re-paint it to black and I guess the project will come to an end

 

[Tangband]

The question of speaker stands is getting resolved too
Ikea will help here again - enter the Lauters floor lamp!

View attachment 352071

We will do some minor modifications then re-paint it to black and I guess the project will come to an end

Those stands look beautiful !
Will those new speakers be your new main speakers ?

 

[DanielT]

Good job ppataki.

If you compare the projects, speakers you made with broadband elements, this one , the one with SB and Fane drivers respectively, what do you think of them, if you compare them with each other? Their advantages and disadvantages respectively?

Do you have a favorite and if so why?

Fane 15-300TC 15" full range speaker based project

Let me share another project that I am venturing into :) A few months ago I managed to buy a pair of Fane 15" full range speakers - unfortunately production of these drivers was stopped earlier this year due to low demand; as far as I know I bought the last pair in Europe (if anybody knows...

audiosciencereview.com

SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8 based desktop project

Last year I did a project based on Markaudio CHR120 drivers in my home office Then this year when I did my rear speaker project using the SB20FRPC30-8 drivers I really got astonished by these drivers so I have decided to replace my CHR120 desktop system with the SBs I already have the SB...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[ppataki]

Those stands look beautiful !
Will those new speakers be your new main speakers ?

Thank you! Yes, these spheres will be my new main speakers (knowing myself I guess we are talking about 1 year max)

Good job ppataki.

If you compare the projects, speakers you made with broadband elements, this one , the one with SB and Fane drivers respectively, what do you think of them, if you compare them with each other? Their advantages and disadvantages respectively?

Thank you!
Well, this is not easy to answer but let me give it a try:

- The SBs are the price/value champions, no doubt about that. If you need 8" full range drivers then they are the go-to models in my opinion. I would have chosen them for the sphere project too but they need a bigger cabinet + given their size it would not have been a great fit for the sphere shape unfortunately....
They tend to beam more than the smaller CHN110 but their mechanical noise is the smallest I have ever heard, including my 15" subs.... So they are very well made drivers

- The 15" (and the 12") Fane drivers are ideal if you have space for the big cabinets and if you don't want/need a subwoofer. The 15" models can handle bass down to 20+ Hz easily. But there are some caveats: they beam like hell (which can be an advantage too if you want to avoid reflections) but this also means that they do not really fill the room with sound, you can only enjoy them in one single location (the MLP).

- The CHN110 (and similarly the CHR120) drivers have a smaller footprint, they beam less but if you need higher SPL at lower frequencies you will need a subwoofer.
Generally speaking if you add a sub to any FR driver you will immediately hear them 'opening up' since there is no more strain on them with the very low frequencies - btw. this is true even for the 15" Fanes, their sound became even more effortless once I added the Lavoce DOS sub.
There are two more things I want to add: the sound stage is very different with the CHN110 vs the Fanes - I am not sure how to put this in words but I can somehow hear the lack of those huge cabinets. As in those huge cabinets were 'casting their own shadows' on the sound stage. With the much smaller sphere cabinets the sides of the stage became more airy and stage depth has increased too.
The second thing which is much easier to explain is the highs. The highs are a totally different ballgame with the smaller drivers. There is way more detail and spark in the good sense.

For now I will keep the SBs in my home office (that is the desktop project that you linked above)
However regarding the SBs in my living room as rear speakers I believe I will replace them with sphere speakers too using the CHN110 drivers. This way I will have the very same drivers in the front and the back too - I believe that will provide a better surround experience

I already have 2 more CHN110 in my garage so I guess my next Ikea salad bowl project is about to start soon!