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Impact of door/window position on in-room response

dominikz

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For a while now I've been noticing that I can get pretty different LF in-room response depending on current room layout and whether doors/windows are open or closed. Anyway, a couple of days ago I decided to test a few variants to see what is the impact exactly on both my systems.

First the living room system (listening distance approx. 2,3m), measured with MMM at MLP (single speaker + sub):
Revel M16 with a single SVS SB-1000 - MMM in-room - room layout.png

The response above ~300Hz is almost identical in all cases.
As we can see, the sub-bass below 30Hz is almost 4dB higher with all windows open vs all closed. Above we see that a few peaks (~35Hz, ~55Hz) are 4-5dB higher with the windows closed vs open. Interesting part is also the 200-300Hz area which has the deepest dip with all windows open.

Next let's look at my desktop, nearfield system (listening distance ~70cm), this time a single speaker measured with a single point sweep at MLP (for simplicity; though I verified first that MMM shows a similar response in LF):
Neumann KH 120A - sweep measurement - room layout.png

Most of the difference is with the lowest modal peak where there is almost 10dB difference in level between fully closed and fully open room! Also we see that there is some 'drift' in center frequency of the peak, which goes up as I open additional windows/doors.
This difference is very audible which is what forced me to go down this rabbit hole in the first place :D The result is I created 3 different EQ presets that I have to switch depending on the door/window position! o_O

I'm using the RME Babyface built-in DSP 3-band EQ for room correction in this system, and I modify just the lowest band to correct the moving peak - with this I can get similar response in all cases. Here is an L+R combined response measured with MMM for the 3 situations/EQs:
Neumann KH 120A - room layout compensation.png

As you can see, this gets the in-room response to the same ballpark in al three cases.

I guess this all shows that, even with pretty good speakers and access to EQ, there can be some less-than-obvious dependencies to take care of to get consistent sound in a room! Anyway, perhaps some will find this interesting!
 

abdo123

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The difference is mostly in sub-bass you can click ‘room is open’ option in REW room simulator and figure out how much the difference is for your particular room.
 

DVDdoug

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Interesting...

I get "better bass" (It seems deeper) in my car with the sunroof open. I don't often drive with the windows down so I'm not sure if that has a similar effect. It's just an average factory stereo and I'm not going to bother measuring it.
 

ernestcarl

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In my room, opening the back corner door leading to the HVAC room significantly improves the upper bass response. Obviously, one does not want this door directly facing the HVAC motor even a tiny bit ajar due to the noise.
 

Wes

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you can get a lot of HF 'glare' if a Maggie is placed at the 'right' angle to a big picture window - don't ask me how I know this...
 

DWPress

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I've noted similar bass response (or lack of) in my space as well but since I'm in N MI the windows are closed 8 months out of the year so I haven't bothered much. If I open the door to the press room from my bindery (where the system is) there is a notable drop in bass pressure as well so for critical listening I keep it closed.
 

Hipper

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I would have thought opening a window would reduce the bass levels rather then increase it. What would be the mechanism for this increase? Could it be noise from outside being picked up by the microphone?
 
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dominikz

dominikz

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I would have thought opening a window would reduce the bass levels rather then increase it. What would be the mechanism for this increase? Could it be noise from outside being picked up by the microphone?
I was also surprised by this - but I got consistent results in several takes, and in my nearfield system I verified with both MMM and sweep measurements (sweep should be a bit more resistant to ambient noise). A few times I've also tried recording just the noise spectrum to confirm that it is not interfering with the measurement.

My theory is that what is happening is not really an increase in bass as the room is opened, it is just the room modes (peaks and dips) are moved and interact in a different way to each other. With that in mind, I assume in some cases you could just as well get less bass with an open room - depending on the specific room dimensions and loudspeaker extension.

Note how e.g. here I get less <30Hz bass with the windows closed, but more above 30Hz:
First the living room system (listening distance approx. 2,3m), measured with MMM at MLP (single speaker + sub):
index.php
 

audiofooled

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I get similar effects both in my car and in my room. Basically acoustics are tad shifted and when I think of it that way, to me it seems as if I'm sitting in a port rather than an enclosed box. Suddenly my car/room can handle more pressure as it is relieved through doors and windows, especially in room I can go much louder before stuff starts rattling about... Certainly interesting and I would like to see a model of what happens in a typical listening room, with regards to long wavelengths. Also, weather the openings act just like open air swinging back and forth or is there an actual tuning frequency like in ports? What about when system is a bit oversized for the room (quite often the case in cars), does it actually benefit when you let more air in and out?
IMHO, listening experience is equally enjoyable in both scenarios, just a bit different, and when it's quiet enough outside I would actually prefer leaving it open.
 

dasdoing

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I would have thought opening a window would reduce the bass levels rather then increase it. What would be the mechanism for this increase? Could it be noise from outside being picked up by the microphone?

me, too

I would like @René - Acculution.com to explain this, since the modes extend from the overall pressure (0 Hz), (we open windows - pressure escapes easier), as he explains here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/analytical-analysis-room-gain.23211/
 

flaviowolff

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I realized this impact after calibrating my setup with Dirac Live with everything closed, enjoying the result, and then listening to it the next day with windows open and hating the bass response. Now to use the filter slots on my miniDSP to fit every room scenario.
 
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dominikz

dominikz

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I realized this impact after calibrating my setup with Dirac Live with everything closed, enjoying the result, and then listening to it the next day with windows open and hating the bass response. Now to use the filter slots on my miniDSP to fit every room scenario.
I can feel your pain :) In my desktop/nearfield system I have 3 EQ presets that I switch between depending on whether my windows are open/closed and in which configuration.
In the living room system I didn't find the difference so audibly offending so there I use only one EQ preset for all configurations.
 
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