Out of fear to burn my scrolling wheel and tearing my finger tendons, a lazy request: Is there al TL;DR? A clear perfomance winner and a price/value winner? Which one is the loser?
Depends what you want, then the winner should be made clear by the graph in #135Out of fear to burn my scrolling wheel and tearing my finger tendons, a lazy request: Is there al TL;DR? A clear perfomance winner and a price/value winner? Which one is the loser?
True, the only site we have left is Audioholics...This post has me really mourning the loss of data-bass.com
True, especially if you want multiple big subwoofers providing a huge amount of deep bass output.FWIW in my professional and enthusiast experience, DIY for subwoofers is a no brainer. So many amazing plans out there, and you can easily beat the Neumann performance for 1/3rd the cost and an afternoon of wood cutting and assembly.
I know this is personal preference and very niche, but I would love if that were true for the 3000 micro. My setup is in the living room close to both bedrooms. If low level morning listening by my son didn’t have the 25-35hz region, but did at movie night levels that would be a potentially happy accident. Not good for a majority of users here.That's an interesting question. The top chart is a tool calibration at 80 dB SPL @ 2m and the second is a frequency response at 85 dB SPL at 100 Hz @ 2m. I wonder if adding that +5 dB SPL caused the speaker to use a different loudness profile? I didn't think the 3000 micro had dynamic frequency response.
IndeedThe L26RO4Y looks great!! A DIYer willing to spend the extra money will be rewarded with some of the lowest distortion bass a small box can bring.
I like this data, but wish more bass reflex subs were included.The L26RO4Y looks great!! A DIYer willing to spend the extra money will be rewarded with some of the lowest distortion bass a small box can bring.
Sorry for being off topic, but BTW, out of curiosity i just tried a stereo sub setup. It is easier now than before, when the MA1 software supported only 1 sub.Thank you! Especially for the link! I think it is a major disadvantage in relation to a three way Speaker with „build in“ bass, if you are not able to put the crossover frequency to - let’s say- 250 Hz and if you are not able to hear stereo in the range betweenn 25 Hz and 250 Hz. The biggest advantage of a combination with small boxes and subwoofer is that you are able to put the woofer one meter or so closer to the listener. So you have good phase linearity, which is nearly impossible with passive 3-way or 4-way speakers! But I want Stereo Subs of course!
However, at other frequencies you sometimes have less than one dB spl change for one dB voltage change.
For example, the B&W can output 103 dB max at 32 Hz but, starting from 98 dB, each 1 dB change of the input only gives about 0.6 dB spl change, while the spl change is adequately 1 dB at 50 Hz.
This reflects a non-linear response of the SW which generates distortion even though the thd is still ok at those levels.
I think that a lot of these subs have the opposite of what you are thinking. A lot of micro subs now will play as low as they dare, even down into the teens hz, but will reduce low frequency output as SPL increases. This way, they are only flat when playing at 75-80 dB. The dynamic DSP knows how much power the amp has and how much excursion the driver has and throttles back the bass accordingly at higher SPLs. DSP makes it so a tiny box can play to sub 20 hz or can play to 100+ dB, but physics dictates both can't happen at the same time.This is all certainly thanks to the dsp. In addition to parametric filters it almost certainly implements non-linear transfer functions : the gain correction depends on the input level.
This is great, especially the column chart. Would like one more column, Size, 1-5 (5=largest) volume= size? woofer dia.?Fantastic report, @Nuyes . Thank you!
What I was missing was a global overview, and since I did it for a friend who's looking for a subwoofer, I thought I'd share it with you:
View attachment 322162
5=best performance
1=worst performance
Difficult to establish a high level score when things are not comparable sometimes ; so I've filed the blanks using some of my experience on correlating measurements and subjective impressions.
Let me know if there are discrepancies with your observations, I can correct it. (some probably remain as it takes time to do this - hopefully small)
Here's the data if you want to comment/reuse:
![]()
ASR Subwoofer Comparison
docs.google.com
Next, if time allows, it'd be nice to have a table summarising the technology used for each subwoofers (closed/ported, woofer size , volume, etc..)
Great and versatile driver. Can be crossed over up to 1.5khz. A DIY’er here in Finland made a 2-way speaker with the L26 and combined it with a compression driver and a horn. I myself have two custom made bass/sub pilars that double as stands.The L26RO4Y looks great!! A DIYer willing to spend the extra money will be rewarded with some of the lowest distortion bass a small box can bring.
DIY Subwoofers are built with Plywood. It has characteristics more suitable for subwoofers. The material stiffness of Plywood vs MDF is higher. Less, perhaps no, internal bracing of the boxes is needed (depends on how big they are). Of course, no "fluff" in the boxes. Nothing that reduces sensitivity should be added.Idk how much the MDF would cost... maybe 50 bucks? And I'd say another 20-30 bucks for paint, screws, the Neutrix connector etc...
Cool Implementation. Cool Workaround!Sorry for being off topic, but BTW, out of curiosity i just tried a stereo sub setup. It is easier now than before, when the MA1 software supported only 1 sub.
I started with my dual mono sub setup. For calibration, both subs receive a stereo signal, but the bass is summed to mono by Neumann DSP. But i can then just sent left channel only to left sub+left main and right channel only to right sub+right main with my RME TotalMix software. Then, i altered my alignment, using the values posted by Neumann as a starting point and tuning them a bit after a REW measurement (see image). This is necessary, because otherwise the bass is too quiet because the DSP still "expects" a stereo signal.
I now have a stereo sub setup calibrated with MA1 (with fixed 80Hz crossover).
View attachment 322245
Don´t ask me if it sounds better. I don´t know. Maybe.
Very nice work. Do you have the build documented somewhere I can read or watch?Great and versatile driver. Can be crossed over up to 1.5khz. A DIY’er here in Finland made a 2-way speaker with the L26 and combined it with a compression driver and a horn. I myself have two custom made bass/sub pilars that double as stands.
EDIT: I thought the sub was enclosed, but it is also open baffle like the other half of the speaker. So, no back on the enclosure.DIY Subwoofers are built with Plywood. It has characteristics more suitable for subwoofers. The material stiffness of Plywood vs MDF is higher. Less, perhaps no, internal bracing of the boxes is needed (depends on how big they are). Of course, no "fluff" in the boxes. Nothing that reduces sensitivity should be added.
MDF for full range speakers.![]()
I am not thinking, I'm just reading the results.I think that a lot of these subs have the opposite of what you are thinking. A lot of micro subs now will play as low as they dare, even down into the teens hz, but will reduce low frequency output as SPL increases. This way, they are only flat when playing at 75-80 dB. The dynamic DSP knows how much power the amp has and how much excursion the driver has and throttles back the bass accordingly at higher SPLs. DSP makes it so a tiny box can play to sub 20 hz or can play to 100+ dB, but physics dictates both can't happen at the same time.
For a studio monitor sub like he Neumann, the designers would much rather the sub go into protection or distortion rather than exhibiting a non-flat response.
While I prefer baltic birch ply for my builds (both speakers and subs), many diy subs are mdf.DIY Subwoofers are built with Plywood. It has characteristics more suitable for subwoofers. The material stiffness of Plywood vs MDF is higher. Less, perhaps no, internal bracing of the boxes is needed (depends on how big they are). Of course, no "fluff" in the boxes. Nothing that reduces sensitivity should be added.
MDF for full range speakers.![]()
That is an open baffle kit, which may not be to everyone’s liking. Open baffle costs a lot of bass (from rear wave cancellation).If someone in the US is looking for a DIY L26RO4Y with less "Y," you could try the kit from Madisound. It's a 13x13x10 flatpack enclosure for $64 and you can add the driver for another $400 ($470 for the whole thing with mounting hardware). You still need a DSP and amp.