HT design around Magneplanar?

[klettermann]

Not sure if this question is OK for ASR but here goes. If inappropriate please ignore.

So, I'm planning/designing a combined HT and 2 channel listening room in new house. Let's start with the room itself. The room isn't finished so I have some latitude in terms of layout and design. That said, overall dimensions are limited to foundation size which is roughly 24' long x 12" wide. Ceiling is 8' with a few odd intrusions from soffits for ductwork etc. Seems like enough space to reasonably work with. I can make the room shorter to avoid L=2xW resonance problems. I've also got a nice collection of Tube Taps to play with.

Now it starts getting trickier. My intent is to set up a dual-use system: 7.1 HT sound that also doubles as a 2-channel audio system. My hardware allows this to be done quite easily. Front speakers run off a dedicated, high end amp that is fed by either the HT amp or my 2-channel audio system depending on intended use. Specifically, electronics for 2-chan audio are Schiit Yggy DAC, Freya S preamp and Loki Max for EQ (which also switches sources for the main amp). HT box is a Denon AVR-x3600h HT. Everything is fed by either streaming sources or my local file server.
Front speakers would be set apart by 82" monitor. Reflections the monitor might be an issue, I'll just have to see (more on that below).
Now it gets a lot trickier. I'm quite stubborn on finding the best use of the equipment I already have. It has served me well and would be expensive to replace with meaningfully better stuff IMO. What I have in mind is this:

• Front & 2 channel listening: After building the room I'd figure on optimizing the 2-channel system and TV placement. Fronts wiould be Magneplanar MGIIIa's driven by Mark Levinson No 332. For 2 channels this is an astounding combination. I assume it would similarly nice for the HT front.
• HT Center: Magneplanar MMG C. Has very clear vocals.
• HT surrounds and rear surrounds: TBD. Several choices. The grab bag includes MG Quart One's, KEF LS50's and Maggie SMGc's. My initial thoughts are to use SMGc's as rear surrounds. They're probably too directional to work well as side surrounds and are best when away from the walls anyway. Then use one of the bookshelf spkrs as side surrounds. The LS50's strike me as better than they need to be for that purpose, but who knows?
• Sub: old, reconed Velodyne ULD-12. Yeah, I know, an antique, but it works and I find it fine for most of my video stuff. I'm a lot pickier about 2-chan than HT sound.

So, looking for comments & suggestions on all this, but please refrain for "just experiment to see what sounds best" remarks. I'll certainly do that but there are lots of permutations with the surround speakers. Added to that is the reality the placing Maggies is a challenge in itself. I'd like to start the process using principled design concepts or, failing that, at least educated guesswork, not open-ended experimentation. Thanks in advance and happy listening! Cheers,

 

[GXAlan]

I ran the MG-III’s as my front speakers for the longest time. Switched to compression driver based JBLs for the added dynamics. Now running Dirac’d Bose 901’s believe it or not.

The Magnepan centers don’t work as well as dual small Magnepan’s flanking the left and right (like the MC1).

You don’t need the tri center,

Magnepan’s “Tri-Center” Concept: Does Stereo Sound Better with Three Channels? - The Absolute Sound

Magnepan’s “Tri-Center” Concept: Does Stereo Sound Better with Three Channels? -

www.theabsolutesound.com

but it sort of tells you that Magnepan wasn’t happy with the normal single setup.

For the rears, I have previously used SMGa’s as rears and they worked well. It depends on your seating position of course.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think your room is a bit narrow for an all panel setup. I had a 20x12 room with ESLs and Maggie's for awhile. I knew someone with all panels in a larger wider room that worked better. So I would suggest panels only for front L and R.

 

[OdysseusG]

Feels like this thread was made for me to respond to, haha. In my current system I have 20s as my mains, CCR (plus DWM) center, 1.6 surrounds, (temporary, to be replaced by MMC-2 in storage) Mini Maggies in the rear, along with two Rythmik F18 subs. Assorted thoughts:

• My current (temporary) room is approximately 22'x11' and I'm going wide instead of deep. As with the comment above, 12' feels way too narrow for width and has been shockingly not terrible for depth.
• I'd personally say that everything over 5.1 is over rated, so if you stick with that placement gets a lot easier. That said, I'm still aiming for 7.1.4 but gave up on trying to figure out Magnepan height channels- even I'm not that crazy.
• Adding a woofer panel to the centers helps immensely. From what I've heard second hand the MMG C is pretty dire, so a CC3 might be a worthwhile upgrade if you can find one used. The CC5 and CCR roll off way higher so a woofer panel is all but required
• The idea of radically different speakers for surrounds bothers me, but I don't remember actually trying it. It's just nice when things pan around and the image is consistent, which I can't imagine with mismatched brands and dispersion patterns
• I'm not sure how loudly you listen but I wouldn't expect everything to survive if you're trying to push full cinema reference levels. In theory my stuff (other than the Minis?) might be able to handle it but I probably stay 10db or more under and things are fine

 

[klettermann]

Feels like this thread was made for me to respond to, haha. In my current system I have 20s as my mains, CCR (plus DWM) center, 1.6 surrounds, (temporary, to be replaced by MMC-2 in storage) Mini Maggies in the rear, along with two Rythmik F18 subs. Assorted thoughts:

• My current (temporary) room is approximately 22'x11' and I'm going wide instead of deep. As with the comment above, 12' feels way too narrow for width and has been shockingly not terrible for depth.
• I'd personally say that everything over 5.1 is over rated, so if you stick with that placement gets a lot easier. That said, I'm still aiming for 7.1.4 but gave up on trying to figure out Magnepan height channels- even I'm not that crazy.
• Adding a woofer panel to the centers helps immensely. From what I've heard second hand the MMG C is pretty dire, so a CC3 might be a worthwhile upgrade if you can find one used. The CC5 and CCR roll off way higher so a woofer panel is all but required
• The idea of radically different speakers for surrounds bothers me, but I don't remember actually trying it. It's just nice when things pan around and the image is consistent, which I can't imagine with mismatched brands and dispersion patterns
• I'm not sure how loudly you listen but I wouldn't expect everything to survive if you're trying to push full cinema reference levels. In theory my stuff (other than the Minis?) might be able to handle it but I probably stay 10db or more under and things are fine

Interesting, thanks. Do I understand that your listening axis is 12' and so your room is effectively 22' wide? My previous room was about 26'L x 12' w. I got vastly better performance by placing speakers about 3' in front of the 12' and about 18" from the sides. Listening position was about .. 1/2 back from front wall. Sounded superb. I found that listening along the 12' axis caused exaggerated bass boom. This was just 2-chan though. HT setup occupied the other side of the room, so viewing couch was back to back with 2-channel system. But I do think I'll start with an all-Maggie 5.1 setup and see how it works.

 

[DonH56]

I have owned Magnepans since around 1979 but have gone back and forth with conventional speakers. My last Maggie setup was 7.1.4 with MG-IIIa L/R, CC3 center, and MC-1 surrounds and rears in a 13' 3" x 17' 7" room oriented with the LCR on the narrow dimension. The room was extensively treated, particularly behind the LR speakers, to reduce comb filtering and provide smoother bass. Without treatment imaging was a mess. The one thing I would have added would have been a DWM under the center; it did "OK" but I really wished for a bit more bass. Ditto the MC-1s; Magnepan claims 80 Hz but I measured more like 100 Hz -3 dB, but I was more tolerant of the lack of bass for surrounds and rears than the center. Staying fairly close to the speakers helps (again if the back wave is damped to reduce comb filter effects); my setup was about an 8' equilateral triangle for LR center-to-center and center of those to the MLP.

Good subs are a must with Maggies IME/IMO.

I originally had a different (conventional) center and surrounds/rears but going all-Maggie sounded much better to me (totally subjectively, of course, but a large part of it was the taller panels provided a more seamless immersive experience IMO).

A couple of folk I "know" (via Internet) did try heights using MC-1s or even MMG-W mounted sidewise (horizontally) along the ceiling. I have never heard that arrangement but they claimed it worked well, though of course with a narrow sweet spot.

My current system is all conventional and I am very happy with it. Tall tower speakers provide the same sense of large front stage as my Maggies (at least when seated, when I care) with much better bass and I don't feel I've given up anything sound-wise. I still have the Maggies, was going to pass them down to the kids, but they (a) don't have room and (b) have their own setups now (mainly hand-me-downs provided by yours truly but they are fine systems in their own right).

FWIFM - Don

 

[GXAlan]

What is interesting is that my Magnepan’s were my preferred speaker system until I saw the recent “A Star is Born” in the theaters, arrived late so I sat a bit too close to the screen, and saw it at a recently calibrated Cinemark XD system.

The dynamics blew my Magnepan system away. That led me down a long path of swapping gear in and out of the my system. My JBL Compression drivers ended up being a good choice, but getting the height effect of the Magnepan was a challenge.

I ended up switching to Dirac’d Bose 901’s with a JBL UT-405 super tweeter to fill the >16 kHz region.

 

[OdysseusG]

Interesting, thanks. Do I understand that your listening axis is 12' and so your room is effectively 22' wide? My previous room was about 26'L x 12' w. I got vastly better performance by placing speakers about 3' in front of the 12' and about 18" from the sides. Listening position was about .. 1/2 back from front wall. Sounded superb. I found that listening along the 12' axis caused exaggerated bass boom. This was just 2-chan though. HT setup occupied the other side of the room, so viewing couch was back to back with 2-channel system. But I do think I'll start with an all-Maggie 5.1 setup and see how it works.

Sounds about right, my mains are about 5' into the room, listening position is about a foot and half to two feet off the back wall, so that means about 5' to speakers. They're 7' apart so they have a good 5' to sidewalls (yes, I like big wide soundstage). I'm currently crossed over at 80hz, used to be at 50. All in all it works much better than it should.

I've been trying to build a dedicated space that's looking to end up around 18'x21' with about 11' ceilings. Don's comment just tempted me to consider Magnepan heights again. I know someone with a spare pair of MC-1s...

 

[StigErik]

I have a 5.1 system based on Magnepans. They are 3.7 (front L/R) and 3.6 (surrounds and centre), but heavily modified with active crossovers, dipole mid bass systems and a large subwoofer system. It is possible to get great dynamics using Magnepan, but not in any way with the original passive crossovers or without a good bass system. I cross over my maggies at 550/1500/5000 Hz 24 dB/oct. Then there’s a 4x 12” dipole midbass system for the L/R and surrounds, and 8x 10” for the centre. Crossover at 80 and 550 Hz. And lots of power…. This system can play 95 dB @ 3 meters with less than 0.1% distortion.

 

[ninanina]

Although I have my system, including Magnepan MG.7’s, in a small room I still decided to try out one DWM panel

It’s actually been a bit of a revelation sound wise

Certainly the DWM is NOT a subwoofer, it’s not designed to be

It just adds to my musical enjoyment but takes nothing away from the performance of the MG.7’s in any way

My sound now has quite a ‘thwack’ to it that was missing from the .7’s

I’m absolutely no bass freak but I’m loving what the DWM brings musically to my system