Help me choose an AVR?

[Toasted]

Hi there, new to this great forum. Been enjoying reading Amir's reviews for ages, but finally joined as I'm looking for some advice.

I just bought a new house, so of course the priority is to setup a new HT system! I have just bought some used Kef R3's for £700, and planning on buying a PB2000 for another £600.

Down the road I will probably add a center, and maybe some rears. Never anymore than 5.1 though.

I just cant figure out what AVR to pair them with. It's a minefield.

My MO is very much getting value for money, or at least getting to the sweet spot in terms of price vs diminishing returns.

Other requirements, or nice to haves:
- Phono connection so my wife can hook up her Rega Planar 1 record player
- Perform well for both music in 2.0 as well as HT in surround sound.
- not fussed about having the absolute latest connectivity and features, I'm just watching 4K mkvs from my Plex server via an Nvidia Shield.
- however ability to cast Spotify would be nice.
- XT32 or Dirac seems important from what I've been reading.

I've also attached a picture of my room so you have an idea of listening distances etc.

Would a used NAD T777 V3 for £700 make sense? Or should I just stick with the X3700H for ~£650? Or could I potentially spend a chunk less and be fine?

Very much appreciate your help.

 

[rynberg]

Get the 3700 and pay for the Audyssey app or computer interface upgrade. The Denon is reliable, good quality room correction (with the upgrade), and pretty decent ergonomics.

 

[Toasted]

Get the 3700 and pay for the Audyssey app or computer interface upgrade. The Denon is reliable, good quality room correction (with the upgrade), and pretty decent ergonomics.

Thanks, it does seem like the best option all round, just need to keep my eye out for a reasonably priced use on.. which seems quite infrequent in the UK to be fair!

 

[Golf]

Or should I just stick with the X3700H

Which is from Denon’s Made-in-Vietnam ranks. You need to like or at least accept that.

Speaking of AVR/Cs, Denon’s Made-in-Japan league seems to start from the X4800H model upwards.

 

[jtnorcal]

Denon's are very reliable and I have had 3 of them!

 

[rynberg]

Which is from Denon’s Made-in-Vietnam ranks. You need to like or at least accept that.

Speaking of AVR/Cs, Denon’s Made-in-Japan league seems to start from the X4800H model upwards.

Anything at that price point is made in China or Vietnam...a helluva lot of much more expensive AVRs are made in China too. The Denon Vietnam factory has been operating for many years now and has good QC.

All that said, when I was still a Denon customer, I tended to buy the previous year's top or second-from-the-top model at discount to get the made in Japan factor, amongst other things. Between 1997 and 2021, I ran three Denons and a Marantz. Other than the sketchy HDMI board on the 4810 (a common issue of that year), never had a problem with any of them. Two of them are in known use still right now.

 

[-Matt-]

Which is from Denon’s Made-in-Vietnam ranks. You need to like or at least accept that.

Speaking of AVR/Cs, Denon’s Made-in-Japan league seems to start from the X4800H model upwards.

My understanding is that it is the X6?00 and up that are made in Japan (not the X4?00).
Edit: It looks like the X4700 was made in Vietnam but the X4800 is now marketed as made in Japan.

...But this is all pretty irrelevant, the OP would be best served by getting the X3700.

 

[Golf]

The Denon Vietnam factory has been operating for many years now and has good QC.

So why is Denon still assembling their top gear in Japan? Could it be that QC is not only »good« there but outstanding?

 

[EWL5]

So why is Denon still assembling their top gear in Japan? Could it be that QC is not only »good« there but outstanding?

If that were true, then it wouldn't explain the inordinate amount of 4800 complaints (compared to 3800) over at the AVS thread for 2800/3800/4800 receivers. Base rate logic would lead you to believe there would be more complaints for the 3800 since there are more owners due to the cheaper price but I haven't found that to be the case. Even the dedicated 4800 thread in ASR is not immune! Growing pains for the 4x00 series in Japan perhaps?

If I had no interest in Dirac, the 4700 is a much better value proposition compared to the 4800!

 

[Golf]

We don’t know how many Denon AVR/C-X4800H owners and how many Denon AVR/C-X3800H owners are there, do we? We also don’t know if the former ones are much more demanding than the latter ones or not. Or if the latter ones just generally don’t feel like writing customers reviews at all. And so on …

 

[EWL5]

We don’t know how many Denon AVR/C-X4800H owners and how many Denon AVR/C-X3800H owners are there, do we? We also don’t know if the former ones are much more demanding than the latter ones or not. Or if the latter ones just generally don’t feel like writing customers reviews at all. And so on …

If you don't like my 3800 vs 4800 example, would you agree there are more Corollas sold than Camrys or Civcs over Accords? Retail price has an impact on supply/demand and subsequent sales!

Your concern about more "vocal" owners participating and impacting reader sentiment would fall under "regression to the mean". The ratio of folks who contribute to a forum compared to total owners for a particular product would be a similar percentage for any other product (unless you think there's a vast difference in how humans are wired!).

 

[Golf]

The ratio of folks who contribute to a forum compared to total owners for a particular product would be a similar percentage for any other product (unless you think there's a vast difference in how humans are wired!).

Which is an assumption you might have a very hard time trying to proof it.

Again, my question is: Why is Denon still assembling its top gear in Japan, while having that »good« factory in Vietnam?

 

[Chrispy]

Country of origin again? Alex, what is Yamaha from Malaysia?

 

[rynberg]

So why is Denon still assembling their top gear in Japan? Could it be that QC is not only »good« there but outstanding?

You seem to be exhibiting a discriminatory bent against Vietnam...based on what evidence?

 

[Chrispy]

It's somewhat funny considering how we (US primarily) used to denigrate Japanese products at one point....the Deming effect?

 

[Golf]

It's somewhat funny considering how we (US primarily) used to denigrate Japanese products at one point.

If that’s the case, then it’s quite different outside the U.S., I’d say.

 

[Toasted]

Am I better just 'KISS' and buying a really good intergrated amp with an optical in from my Shield? And then just running 2.0 or 2.1?

I assume I need an AVR for things like virtual/phantom centres?

Minefield.

 

[rynberg]

Am I better just 'KISS' and buying a really good intergrated amp with an optical in from my Shield? And then just running 2.0 or 2.1?

I assume I need an AVR for things like virtual/phantom centres?

Minefield.

You're overcomplicating this. Just buy the Denon and enjoy. Anyone listening to music without the ability to use EQ/room correction is not enjoying high fidelity in 2024.

If you've truly decided to only keep your system as 2.1, then at least buy a proper integrated amp that has good EQ/room correction, HDMI input, and proper subwoofer out.

 

[Toasted]

You're overcomplicating this. Just buy the Denon and enjoy. Anyone listening to music without the ability to use EQ/room correction is not enjoying high fidelity in 2024.

If you've truly decided to only keep your system as 2.1, then at least buy a proper integrated amp that has good EQ/room correction, HDMI input, and proper subwoofer out.

One last go at overcomplicating this before I do as I'm told..

So let's say I have £1000ish to spend on an AVR to run my current gear, which is L&R Kef R3, and a PC-2000 sub. And hopefully in the near future adding a 3rd Kef R3 as a centre.

Am I getting more bang for the buck going for:

1. Denon X3700/X3800 (~£1000)
2. Marantz Cinema 70S (£600) + a £400-£600 3 channel power amp (Emotiva BasX A3 / or some Class D amp like Nord NC252)

 

[Zapper]

It's somewhat funny considering how we (US primarily)

(and born before 1965)

used to denigrate Japanese products at one point....the Deming effect?

I only remember "made in Japan" commonly being a negative in the early 1960's. By the 1970's brands like Sony, Toyota, and Nikon changed that around. Then we picked on Taiwan and Hong Kong, then Korea for a short time, then China for a longer time. Now it's Malaysia, Vietnam, and Thailand. There is always a place where low labor costs sometimes trumps quality.