Help? designing a DIY loudspeaker

[computer-audiophile]

My reason for sharing is to say that a person should focus on the aspect of speaker design that they are interested in.

Agreed, that's exactly how I see it. I just didn't understand the close relationship of the design with Genelec, who produce particularly sophisticated professional loudspeakers with a development effort of many man-years.

BTW: As a classical music listener, I don't attach much importance to sub-bass. I'm more in tune with Paul W Klipsch, who once said: 'the midrange is where we live'.

 

[Fredygump]

Agreed, that's exactly how I see it. I just didn't understand the close relationship of the design with Genelec, who produce particularly sophisticated professional loudspeakers with a development effort of many man-years.

BTW: As a classical music listener, I don't attach much importance to sub-bass. I'm more in tune with Paul W Klipsch, who once said: 'the midrange is where we live'.

Well, you have a habit of being insulting, don't you think?

I hope someone else understands! The close relationship with Genelec is obvious. I am copying the physical driver arrangement Genelec is using in the W371A. And then I added a coaxial driver to make it full range, which is what Genelec did in the 8381A.

What you are looking at is actual audio science taking place. I built it, I tested it, and I described what I found.

It would be nice if someone else chose to try it too, because then they could confirm what I am finding and maybe move the design forward.

 

[DanielT]

Has it been mentioned in the thread that there are DIY kits available? That could be an option, or? An example, among many kits, the Visaton Nimrod more or less a copy (in appearance, style) of the Wharfedale Linton 85th. Compare the shape of the baffle on them, for example. Both riding on the vintage design look craze:

Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary speaker review & measurements by Erin's Audio Corner

It seems he really likes them: Parting / Random Thoughts As stated in the Foreword, this written review is purposely a cliff’s notes version. For details about the performance (objectively and subjectively) please watch the YouTube video. But a couple quick notes based on my listening and...

audiosciencereview.com

NIMROD | Visaton

Let's go back to the 1970s in the UK to the creation of the legendary BBC monitors and the larger speaker models for home use. This was a time when listening to music still involved good old vinyl records and was a pleasure to be enjoyed. Our aim in producing the NIMROD was to revive this...

www.visaton.de

HiFi-/Surround Kits | Visaton

www.visaton.de

Nimrod

Shelf speaker,Nimrod,bass reflex,loudspeaker,DIY kit,Visaton G 25 FFL 8 Ohm(V-1175), Visaton Waveguide WG 148 R(V-5176), Visaton B 100 6 Ohm(V-1263), Visaton Tieftöner GF 200 2 x 4 Ohm(V-1330)

www.lautsprechershop.de

 

[computer-audiophile]

Has it been mentioned in the thread that there are DIY kits available? That could be an option, or? An example, among many kits, the Visaton Nimrod more or less a copy (in appearance, style) of the Wharfedale Linton 85th. Compare the shape of the baffle on them, for example. Both riding on the vintage design look craze:
View attachment 320136

Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary speaker review & measurements by Erin's Audio Corner

It seems he really likes them: Parting / Random Thoughts As stated in the Foreword, this written review is purposely a cliff’s notes version. For details about the performance (objectively and subjectively) please watch the YouTube video. But a couple quick notes based on my listening and...

audiosciencereview.com

View attachment 320133

View attachment 320134

NIMROD | Visaton

Let's go back to the 1970s in the UK to the creation of the legendary BBC monitors and the larger speaker models for home use. This was a time when listening to music still involved good old vinyl records and was a pleasure to be enjoyed. Our aim in producing the NIMROD was to revive this...

www.visaton.de

HiFi-/Surround Kits | Visaton

www.visaton.de

Nimrod

Shelf speaker,Nimrod,bass reflex,loudspeaker,DIY kit,Visaton G 25 FFL 8 Ohm(V-1175), Visaton Waveguide WG 148 R(V-5176), Visaton B 100 6 Ohm(V-1263), Visaton Tieftöner GF 200 2 x 4 Ohm(V-1330)

www.lautsprechershop.de

Hi Daniel

I had a quick look (I hope I am not wrong)

The price for the NIMROD kit: 619 Euros
The price for the Wharfedale Linton 85: 499 Euros.

This would strengthen my thesis that a DIY-copy of mass-produced loudspeakers is usually not worthwhile.

 

[DanielT]

Hi Daniel

I had a quick look (I hope I am not wrong)

The price for the NIMROD kit: 619 Euros
The price for the Wharfedale Linton 85: 499 Euros.

This would strengthen my thesis that a DIY-copy of mass-produced loudspeakers is usually not worthwhile.

That may be true, but we don't know if those Visaton Nimrod are better, or much better than Wharfedale Linton 85. Or for that matter worse, I should add.

Okay kit to find out If you will like to carpentry, assemble speakers. Then maybe you should try a cheap kit, for example:

Parts Express DIY C-Note Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Parts Express C-Note DIY Kit. It was kindly purchased, put together and shipped to me by member @Winkleswizard. A pair of these with everything you need including the cabinet "flat pack" costs just US $100. And that includes free shipping if...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[DanielT]

This would strengthen my thesis that a DIY-copy of mass-produced loudspeakers is usually not worthwhile.

But the joy of discovery combined with the construction itself plus learning along the way cannot be mistaken when it comes to ppataki. That in itself can be worth a lot.

Some examples:

SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8 based desktop project

Last year I did a project based on Markaudio CHR120 drivers in my home office Then this year when I did my rear speaker project using the SB20FRPC30-8 drivers I really got astonished by these drivers so I have decided to replace my CHR120 desktop system with the SBs I already have the SB...

audiosciencereview.com

Lego loudspeaker project using Dayton ND91-8

This project is rather for fun but who knows, maybe it will work out well and will do more of these.... I have some spare Dayton ND91-8 full range drivers (leftover from my MCLA and my truncated line array projects) and I will put one of those into a closed cabinet made of Lego bricks Cabinet...

audiosciencereview.com

Murphy's Corner Line Array project

After having read many forum threads here and elsewhere I have decided to move forward with a Murphy's Corner Line Array project in my living room I thought that I would share my progress here in this thread as regularly as possible The design idea: The original MCLA design has a 45 degree...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[ta240]

Bingo, do it for the joy of doing it, not for the savings.

 

[DanielT]

Depreciation of DIY. You should keep that in mind if you are considering to sell the things you have made at some point in the future.

I'm not the one selling them. I just took these as examples. Seller wants $90 for both:

I am selling my self-constructed bass modules built with Peerless XXLS10. In oak veneer and
intended to be connected with a separate filter and amplifier.
Very limited use and in good condition.

Height: 53 cm
Depth: 55 cm
Width 32 cm

Basmoduler / Bashögtalare - Peerless XXLS10

hifitorget.se

They seem well built. Had I been in the market for bass modules, they could certainly be an option.
How much did the Peerless XXLS10 cost? $150 each? And just the build material for two bass modules costs a decent amount of money.

 

[Paweł L]

There's an old project from Polish DIY site based on the sb15ncac30-8 version and Satori ringdome tweeter.

MTM 2xSB15CAC30-8 & TW29RB - projekt by borys - DIYaudio.pl

Projekty wraz z dokumentacjami, gotowe do kopiowania-kolumny

diyaudio.pl

Somewhat simple X-over, maybe even too simple, I didn't build or hear the design (lack of RLC trap to cut the cone resonance, but maybe not really needed), the designer said he tried more complicated x-o for flatter freq resp and things didn't really sounded that great. The enclosure can made in BR or closed box version.

 

[D!sco]

this all started from an idea of using the Hivi 3.1kit + a speaker stand with Dual opposing subs now it's just spiralled out of control tbh im lost in the sea of confusion and options

Honestly what are you looking for that this doesn't provide? More driver surface area? Higher SPL? Lower distortion?

My only reason for wanting to replace these is to try narrower dispersion patterns. And, honestly "I want to build X thing" is probably the worst way to go about building a speaker. Always have a design goal in mind. Low IMD, deep extension, who cares how large enclosures, whatever. There has to be an idea besides making a speaker or all you'll get is mess.

 

[DanielT]

Honestly what are you looking for that this doesn't provide? More driver surface area? Higher SPL? Lower distortion?

My only reason for wanting to replace these is to try narrower dispersion patterns. And, honestly "I want to build X thing" is probably the worst way to go about building a speaker. Always have a design goal in mind. Low IMD, deep extension, who cares how large enclosures, whatever. There has to be an idea besides making a speaker or all you'll get is mess.

Tip:

Select dispersion pattern

Which dispersion pattern had you chosen? If we play with the idea that you would use a waveguide. Choose vertical and horizontal dispersion and feel free to justify your choice. For inspiration here you can see different waveguides...

audiosciencereview.com

Here you can choose the waveguide with dispersion that suits you:

Home

Explore our stock of horns and waveguides. Find the partner for your horn driver to deliver midrange and high frequencies, with reliable range and coverage.

www.parts-express.com

 

[D!sco]

none of those fit any of my current drivers

 

[MAB]

Hi Daniel

I had a quick look (I hope I am not wrong)

The price for the NIMROD kit: 619 Euros
The price for the Wharfedale Linton 85: 499 Euros.

This would strengthen my thesis that a DIY-copy of mass-produced loudspeakers is usually not worthwhile.

I never did it to save money... rather for learning, satisfaction, and the end product suits my ego.
That being said, I built a pair of JBL M2 clones for about $3500 US (including DSP and amps), and the $25000 savings covered pretty much every bad and wasteful audio expenditure I ever made.

 

[JiBé]

End Game DIY Loudspeakers

Hello Folks, I expect many of you have seen or contributed to (thank you!) the below thread I started … https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/30k-budget-on-the-quest-for-my-end-game-speaker.38378/ During the process of creating my short list, the idea of DIY has entered...

www.audiosciencereview.com

My experience with DIY and it's many frustrations that are not talked about.

Howdy, I don't feel this website is the most active in terms of DIY speakers, but I feel my opinions may be of more value here than other sites. This will probably be quite scatter brained and I'm going to be as open as I can be maybe touching on some deeper personal issues in the end. I got...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Unless you really really really want to learn about speaker designing, I'd say just buy some. There's a lot of actual engineering.

 

[Dave Bullet]

The driver choices are fine. All good drivers.

You may only need one PR per side - given a single PR has at least twice the swept volume of 2 x SB15s.

A UMIK-1 is fine for measurements. I use one myself for speaker design.

I'd recommend doing some box modeling with 2 x SB15s and a single SB16 PR per side. VituixCAD may be able to model this combination (it's my preferred box, diffraction and active/passive crossover design tool).

Actual impedance measurements are not needed for crossover design - you can use manufacturer impedance measurements.

You CAN get close to reality with using manufacturer FR data - but there is a lot more systematic manipulation you need to apply to get this done correctly. It actually becomes easier to just measure. I prefer Room EQ wizard (REW) for frequency response measurements.

Are you planning to go active / passive for the crossover?

 

[Flaesh]

DIY-copy of mass-produced loudspeakers is usually not worthwhile.

[perhaps an unusual example] It seems there are hundreds of copies and clones of JBL M2; a matching subwoofer SUB18 is also a good job for the home carpenter.
But it will be around 500~ euros per driver. (May be more now)

 

[Don Reid]

I built my first DIY speakers in 1973. They were my own design and ended up being terrible mid range honkers, but the project was so much fun that I knew I would continue with the hobby. Before I built any more speakers I read five or six books on loudspeaker design and construction. This was time very well spent. From that point on I knew so much more about what I was doing that of the many speakers I built since then none were failures. In fact my present DIY fully horn loaded, triamplified speakers are so good that I have quit building speakers since I don't how I might do better without spending a huge amount of money.
I suggest you find and study good books on speaker design and construction before you proceed. That worked well for me.

 

[DanielT]

Here an affordable project. Good first project if you want to try DIY speakers. The surprising thing is this, for only $17 get:

The harmonic distortion through the midrange is among the lowest of the speakers I have measured, THD ~0.2% @ 100dB 800Hz - 2kHz!

Almost unbelievable, but he who built them seems to be a fairly experienced DIY, so the measurement is probably correct.

Note that the speaker barely goes down to 100 Hz so a subwoofer is a must. It would actually be best if the GRS bass driver acted as a midrange in a three-way construction.

MTG Designs - VBS-6.2

The Design: A value oriented compact 6" 2-way with a horn loaded compression driver and excellent sound quality and output above 100hz. Best used as surrounds or compact mains in a home theater or where a small high output speaker is needed when subwoofers will be used to fill in the bottom end.

www.mtg-designs.com

Home

GRS 6PT-8 6-1/2" Paper Cone Professional Midbass 8 OhmEngineered for high output with smooth frequency response, the 6PT-8 6-1/2” professional woofer is ideal for use in systems built to provide impressive SPL. Packed with features you would expect from much more expensive drivers, the 6PT-8 is...

www.parts-express.com

 

[Salt]

Building speakers DIY needs certainly some knowledge about it, as @Don Reid pointed out. Besides this it is not rocket-science but some steps more difficult , as you can not predict all results by simulation as reality may change a lot (not all speaker companies are aware of this ).
For beginning with DIY there are several steps: read books, inhale decent forum posts (as here and other places) and, if severly interested, look for magazines covering it. When I started, there was no "Internet", just a beginning of Arpanet, but books and magazines (and community of same interest) helped.
For to start with You might have looked at https://www.lautsprechershop.de/intro_de.htm . Several well documented DIY projects including data of FR, impedance etc.
You will find the first to build soon ... whatever it will be.

 

[tomtoo]

DIY speakers are for learning a hobby. They are not cheaper. And usually also not better. BUT they can be a great and fun hobby. And learn about xovers, drivers, computer simulations and measurements. DSP, active amplification......