Help? designing a DIY loudspeaker

[computer-audiophile]

I would only build a loudspeaker myself if I wanted to realise a certain design with it that does not exist. If I have to ask for advice for that, it only shows that I don't have any good ideas myself. Besides, you can't explain everything that needs to be considered in the short form of postings in a forum. I had to read thick books first.

In my opinion, it makes no sense to imitate commercial designs; it won't be cheaper or better.

 

[Markie Warkie]

im not really trying to imitate a commercial design i wanna make something of my "own" but since im limited on equipment and budget base it on something already established so im not just 100% guessing

 

[voodooless]

Quite a bit has been said about the logic (of lack thereof) of making DIY speakers, so let’s focus on the design specifics:

2 midwoofers playing the same frequency range is only a good idea as an MTM. If it’s going to be an TMM, you’ll need to make it a 2.5-way. It saves you the baffle step compensation . MTMs have stricter constraints on x-over frequency. Generally the lower the better.Also generally, you want a PR with more surface area than your woofers. So I would recommend at least 3 or 4. And save up for an active crossover, it will make things a lot easier, and you’ll save a ton of money on crossover components you’ll never use again.

 

[Markie Warkie]

Thanks for your response it's very very VERY apparent Analog crossover is 100% not for me and not the solution so il considering getting an Active crossover (mini DSP?) i have amps so I'm okay on that

Now The MTM thing my original plan was MTM + future "bass towers" like the directiva bass towers
i dont think il have the budget rn for those said bass extension towers so that leaves basically everything else to worry about

 

[Salt]

In my opinion, it makes no sense to imitate commercial designs; it won't be cheaper or better.

Disagree. Understanding the design! can help to design equal or better without retail costs ... if you're aware of what you do ....

 

[computer-audiophile]

Disagree. Understanding the design! can help to design equal or better without retail costs ... if you're aware of what you do ....

Well, I'm happy to be convinced of the opposite. Can you show me an example? (Pics or it didn't happen)

 

[Salt]

see post #19 or forget about it ...

 

[voodooless]

see post #19 or forget about it ...

So how many of those are actually objectively really good? Probably a handful. And even then, those are commercial kits, it isn’t exactly real DIY.

That doesn’t mean you can’t learn from them. But for that, it’s better to just buy the magazines they’re featured in.

It is simply hard to compete with good €£$ 500 per speaker commercial designs. The best way it to make something that is commercially not available. Then it actually makes sense to DIY.

 

[DVDdoug]

Whatever you do, get some speaker design software. (WinISD is FREE, but it doesn't cover passive radiator designs.) You plug-in the Thiele-Small parameters for your woofer and the software helps you optimize the cabinet and predict/model performance (in the bass range). You can experiment with sealed/ported designs and different box size and port dimensions, .etc.

 

[computer-audiophile]

see post #19 or forget about it ...

OK, thanks, now I know what you mean. There are a few of these kit companies that are not unknown to me. I visited the Strassaker company e.g. once, know people from Klang und Ton magazine in person, have been to DIY trade fairs, etc.

Well, not my cup of tea - with a few exceptions.

 

[computer-audiophile]

That doesn’t mean you can’t learn from them. But for that, it’s better to just buy the magazines they’re featured in.

Good point!

 

[Markie Warkie]

I have Win ISD and Vituix Cad

 

[Salt]

So how many of those are actually objectively really good? Probably a handful. And even then, those are commercial kits, it isn’t exactly real DIY.

That doesn’t mean you can’t learn from them. But for that, it’s better to just buy the magazines they’re featured in.

It is simply hard to compete with good €£$ 500 per speaker commercial designs. The best way it to make something that is commercially not available. Then it actually makes sense to DIY.

If it fits personally, it does.
If not, don't mint.
Did not see Your mention on this thread before, and, as mentioned, £ or € 500 is the butter and bread one can do some miracle with...
Keep in mind, that speakers sale with double in purchase from production to distributor to resaler...

 

[Salt]

OK, thanks, now I know what you mean. There are a few of these kit companies that are not unknown to me. I visited the Strassaker company e.g. once, know people from Klang und Ton magazine in person, have been to DIY trade fairs, etc.

Well, not my cup of tea - with a few exceptions.

Means what?

 

[BelgianJoey]

If you want to do a DIY project just do it. Don’t let anyone discourage you. I did two projects during the pandemic and I found them very rewarding. Probably not better nor cheaper than what I could have bought but I enjoyed the process of designing, selecting, assembling, testing…. And in the end I am proud of the result I could obtain.

 

[fpitas]

Probably not better nor cheaper than what I could have bought but I enjoyed the process of designing, selecting, assembling, testing…. And in the end I am proud of the result I could obtain.

Now those are good reasons for DIY.

 

[voodooless]

If it fits personally, it does.
If not, don't mint.

That’s exactly the point. But to make that judgement, one should be aware of what one is going to get oneself in to.

Did not see Your mention on this thread before, and, as mentioned, £ or € 500 is the butter and bread one can do some miracle with...
Keep in mind, that speakers sale with double in purchase from production to distributor to resaler...

That’s fine. It still really hard to make something that rivals a commercial product of the same price. Both in performance and esthetics. And that is specifically true if your new to the game and have little experience in the matter. So if you expect best performance for the money, and your a virgin DIY’er, I would probably start with a kit, or be prepared for a very steep learning curve. Both can be excellent experiences, just know upfront which option you prefer.

 

[voodooless]

Thanks for your response it's very very VERY apparent Analog crossover is 100% not for me and not the solution so il considering getting an Active crossover (mini DSP?) i have amps so I'm okay on that

Now The MTM thing my original plan was MTM + future "bass towers" like the directiva bass towers
i dont think il have the budget rn for those said bass extension towers so that leaves basically everything else to worry about

A MiniDSP Flex should work quite well for an MTM. You can save a bit on the PR’s if you take some cheaper ones (check on AliExpress for instance), or just go reflex for a first project. As for the tweeter, I’m not sure if that’s the best choice for an MTM. The recommended crossover point seems to be > 2 kHz. I think for an MTM, I would choose a quite a bit lower X-over of 1.5 to 1.8 kHz, and to prevent interference lobing of the woofers, you would actually need something even lower, more like 1 to 1.3 kHz. You can cheat a bit by offsetting the tweeter a bit, to bring the woofers closer and raise the crossover frequency. Maybe SB TW29D-B or TW29R-B are a better choice, or some lower FS seas or ScanSpeak tweeters. Or something smaller, like SS D3004.

… and yes, imho, most MTMs have a way too high crossover frequency. It’s a compromisers, and not the best one.

 

[DanielT]

So how many of those are actually objectively really good? Probably a handful. And even then, those are commercial kits, it isn’t exactly real DIY.

That doesn’t mean you can’t learn from them. But for that, it’s better to just buy the magazines they’re featured in.

It is simply hard to compete with good €£$ 500 per speaker commercial designs. The best way it to make something that is commercially not available. Then it actually makes sense to DIY.

Well. It can be done , this compete with commercial speakers that is, BUT it may require a lot of time and study (depends on the level of knowledge at the start). Then a lot of tests and measurements. Maarten did it when he designed his, which he called "Räv-L" (Fox-L) DIY. I don't know how many test boxes/baffles and measurements he did, many anyway. Fortunately, he then posted the entire construction, with detailed drawings for the lazy to copy. Which then many did.
Even if you don't know Swedish, you can check all the graphs in this thread. Where it compares to commercial speakers:

Can cheap DIY speakers compete with the best speakers on the market in terms of sound quality?
How difficult is HiFi and what can you do yourself? What should be considered to achieve good reproduction?

The short answer to the question in the title is an unequivocal 'YES', DIY is highly competitive! It took me as a beginner 13 weekends over the course of a year (it would have gone much faster if the measurement results below had been less surprising, and if the simulation tools had been more accurate) and material costs approx. SEK 5,000 ( €£$ 500) to achieve the result in this post in the form of a speaker like this ( called Räv-L):

Comparison reference axis Räv-L vs Revel M106,Revel 226be, Magico s5, Kef 1 Meta, Ino i14s

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Är DIY konkurrenskraftigt? SPIN-off Räv-L EPS2 piP i14s mfl

 

[voodooless]

Nobody said it can’t be done. It’s just not easy .