Harbeth speakers

[ThoFi]

As I've written in the Welcome New Members to ASR, introduce yourself here-thread, I really liked the Harbeth Compact 7es-3 with the Rega Elex-R stereo amplifier when I still had them. Look at my stop-gap thread to see what the room looks like.

They had a fullness and clarity that I really liked, with some more instrumental recordings sending shivers down my spine. I listened to the Harbeth SHL5 Plus at a hifi store with the same amp and liked their extra bass and slight lift in clarity. It's good to hear the XD version of the 7's sound like a mini SHL5 but I will find a place to listen to them in time. It takes time to rebuild a setup like that. I'm not an audiophile but I do like good sound and gear. And since I'm only/already 34 and still have most of my hearing this is a long-term purchase.

Reposting the old setup:

Speakers ended up further away from the wall and on a set of adhesive Soundcare Spike 2

I am a little confused because you say that you like the sound of the old setup, as shown at the picture.
If so, this must be a bass boomy sound with rolled of high frequencies that you like.
The SHL5+ you listen to at a hifi store must sound totally different….

 

[ThoFi]

A reasonably benign room, i.e. one that's pleasant to be in for normal domestic and social purposes will nevertheless have a frequency response that's nowhere near flat. It will nevertheless be a pleasant room in spite of that. Using a loudspeaker with a flat response in that room means it will excite the room in the same way as other everyday sounds, and therefore will sound natural in that room. A loudspeaker with a non-flat response will overlay that on the room's response and therefore sound less natural than one that's flat.

That's why a loudspeaker with a flat anechoic response is to be preferred, and is a reason why, unless the room is very poor, I think room correction is the wrong way, and if it is very poor, then improving the room is a better solution than screwing up the loudspeaker's response in an attempt to get the in-room response reasonable.

S.

both, the flat and non-flat speaker excite the room and overlay..

 

[sergeauckland]

both, the flat and non-flat speaker excite the room and overlay..

Exactly, so a flat 'speaker will be 'flatter' in-room than a non-flat 'speaker unless one's really (un)lucky and the peaks and troughs of the non-flat 'speaker complement each other. However, that's still not a natural situation, so give me a flat 'speaker in a decent room every time.

S.

 

[ThoFi]

Exactly, so a flat 'speaker will be 'flatter' in-room than a non-flat 'speaker unless one's really (un)lucky and the peaks and troughs of the non-flat 'speaker complement each other. However, that's still not a natural situation, so give me a flat 'speaker in a decent room every time.

S.

but anyway the response of the room is much higher than the small dB fluctuations of speakers FR

 

[Putter]

As I've written in the Welcome New Members to ASR, introduce yourself here-thread, I really liked the Harbeth Compact 7es-3 with the Rega Elex-R stereo amplifier when I still had them. Look at my stop-gap thread to see what the room looks like.

They had a fullness and clarity that I really liked, with some more instrumental recordings sending shivers down my spine. I listened to the Harbeth SHL5 Plus at a hifi store with the same amp and liked their extra bass and slight lift in clarity. It's good to hear the XD version of the 7's sound like a mini SHL5 but I will find a place to listen to them in time. It takes time to rebuild a setup like that. I'm not an audiophile but I do like good sound and gear. And since I'm only/already 34 and still have most of my hearing this is a long-term purchase.

Sorry, but the second half of the bolded sentence DEFINES audiophile.

from the Online Etymology Dictionary,

audio-​

word-forming element meaning "sound, hearing," from combining form of Latin audire "to hear" (from PIE root *au- "to perceive"); used in English word formation by 1890s.

-phile​

also -phil, word-forming element meaning "one that loves, likes, or is attracted to," via French -phile and Medieval Latin -philus in this sense, from Greek -philos, common suffix in personal names (such as Theophilos), from philos "loving, friendly, dear; related, own," related to philein "to love," which is of unknown origin. According to Beekes, the original meaning was "own, accompanying" rather than "beloved."

So one who loves hearing. Even more interesting is the original usage.

audiophile (n.)​

1951, originally in "High Fidelity" magazine, from audio- + -phile.

Bottom line is you're infected and there's no cure short of deafness.

Apologies to the moderator for a big threadjack, but I never realized that the term dates from the mid 20th century.

 

[JaccoW]

I am a little confused because you say that you like the sound of the old setup, as shown at the picture.
If so, this must be a bass boomy sound with rolled of high frequencies that you like.
The SHL5+ you listen to at a hifi store must sound totally different….

Look, all I know is I had the luxury back in 2018 of trying the Compact 7es-3 in combination with a Rega Brio and Rega Elex-R amplifier as well as the HL5 Plus. I was free to try different music and inputs and to switch between these two loudspeakers.

I came there to try the Brio with a pair of Elac Debut B6. Well reviewed speakers in their price range but I absolutely hated the sound. IIRC it was flat and boomy.
We talked with the gentleman at the hifi store about what we liked and he suggested listening to something else entirely (even though it was a very different price range). We agreed.

Tried the 7's with the Brio, night and day. Tried them with the bigger Elex-R amp; no contest. Even better.
Asked him about the one step up from there and we tried the 5's. An improvement over the 7's, sure. But at a price that was another €1000 or so higher for an improvement that definitely brought out more detail and more lows it was an "excellent" vs. "Even better".

So we settled on the 7's and have been very happy with it since. Mostly playing things through a DAC or vinyl.
Then we broke up earlier this year and she took the entire audio setup.

I like clear highs and I like lows that I can feel versus lows that are in my face. My speakers before that were a pair of Altec Lansing MX5021 2.1 stereo, which are fairly heavy on the highs. But I often find subwoofers to be too much. That feeling of rattling the plates on the neighbours dinner table doesn't appeal to me.

As for the type of music I like and compare speakers with; (sorry for the Youtube links, not the best quality I know but it's kind of hard sharing my local files)

• Ambulat Hic Armatus Homo - Gianluigi Trovesi
• Papers Scissors Stone - Portico Quartet
• Serendipity - Clap! Clap!
• Ode to the Pleiades - Clap! Clap!
• Feather - Nujabes
• The Salmon Dance - The Chemical Brothers
• Rebirth of Cool - DJ Cam Quartet
• Sangria - Thomas Bangalter
• Positif - Mr. Oizo
• Morena - Mariana Nolasco part. Vitor Kley

So a mixture of classical music, (experimental) jazz, House, Dance, Hiphop and just acoustic music.
Some quiet music, some wall of sound type of music.

 

[JaccoW]

Sorry, but the second half of the bolded sentence DEFINES audiophile.

[...]

Bottom line is you're infected and there's no cure short of deafness.

Apologies to the moderator for a big threadjack, but I never realized that the term dates from the mid 20th century.

Damnit! I already have too many expensive hobbies lined up!

 

[DSJR]

As I've written in the Welcome New Members to ASR, introduce yourself here-thread, I really liked the Harbeth Compact 7es-3 with the Rega Elex-R stereo amplifier when I still had them. Look at my stop-gap thread to see what the room looks like.

They had a fullness and clarity that I really liked, with some more instrumental recordings sending shivers down my spine. I listened to the Harbeth SHL5 Plus at a hifi store with the same amp and liked their extra bass and slight lift in clarity. It's good to hear the XD version of the 7's sound like a mini SHL5 but I will find a place to listen to them in time. It takes time to rebuild a setup like that. I'm not an audiophile but I do like good sound and gear. And since I'm only/already 34 and still have most of my hearing this is a long-term purchase.

Reposting the old setup:

Speakers ended up further away from the wall and on a set of adhesive Soundcare Spike 2

Don't flame me but you're not going to like my comment (apologies). These boxes need stands and well away from the back wall and corner if the mid bass isn't to drone and mask the rather fine mids too much. At least that's how I found 7ES-3's in the past, even pulled well out from the back wall in a lively room which favours the other models. XD's are 'tauter' in tonal quality and it seems to go just a bit further than frequency response, but of course I could be wrong in this view.

You've also got your Thorens perched directly over the amp too, so just maybe, extra hum induced by the transformer. I'd probably have put the deck to the right of the amp to keep the power supply as far away from the amp's supply as possible. ANY hum in a vinyl based system is an absolute killer, this from first hand experience over the years.

Do PLEASE forgive me here, it's the latent dealer still there coming out and I can't bloody help myself.

 

[JaccoW]

Don't flame me but you're not going to like my comment (apologies). These boxes need stands and well away from the back wall and corner if the mid bass isn't to drone and mask the rather fine mids too much. At least that's how I found 7ES-3's in the past, even pulled well out from the back wall in a lively room which favours the other models. XD's are 'tauter' in tonal quality and it seems to go just a bit further than frequency response, but of course I could be wrong in this view.

You've also got your Thorens perched directly over the amp too, so just maybe, extra hum induced by the transformer. I'd probably have put the deck to the right of the amp to keep the power supply as far away from the amp's supply as possible. ANY hum in a vinyl based system is an absolute killer, this from first hand experience over the years.

Do PLEASE forgive me here, it's the latent dealer still there coming out and I can't bloody help myself.

You are definitely not the only one who has said that online and I will certainly keep that in mind for the new setup.

The WAF came into play here and limited room in the apartment. The living room is on the larger side by European standard at 33m² (26.5m² / 279 sq. ft.) if we exclude the kitchen) for an apartment of 75m² / 807 sq. ft.. Pulling them forward 50cm was simply not very practical in this living room.

Even so they were a pleasure to listen to once we put them on spikes. But when I rebuild everything I plan to use stands and a nice, wide cabinet to put everything in/on.

 

[DSJR]

I had a boss who absolutely HATED equipment racks and I couldn't really understand it myself. There is something to be said for placing gear alongside each other rather than piled up on shelves. being a fan of the Rega amp you have/had and it's phono stage also and owning a Thorens 160 (currently armless and sulking in storage while a rather nice vintage Beogram 3000/SP12 is out), I just mindlessly jumped in in 'dealer mode.'

It's expensive gear this and Harbeths are NOT cheap speakers, especially today, so anything you can do to site and support said speakers and deck would help you enjoy the music better I feel (you do have a proper digital source too, don't you? - I'm really dropping myself deeper in it if vinyl and tape is all you have)

 

[JaccoW]

I had a boss who absolutely HATED equipment racks and I couldn't really understand it myself. There is something to be said for placing gear alongside each other rather than piled up on shelves. being a fan of the Rega amp you have/had and it's phono stage also and owning a Thorens 160 (currently armless and sulking in storage while a rather nice vintage Beogram 3000/SP12 is out), I just mindlessly jumped in in 'dealer mode.'

It's expensive gear this and Harbeths are NOT cheap speakers, especially today, so anything you can do to site and support said speakers and deck would help you enjoy the music better I feel (you do have a proper digital source too, don't you? - I'm really dropping myself deeper in it if vinyl and tape is all you have)

I have worked in a store which sold high-end outdoor gear myself and I have to hold back from advising people whenever I visit shops. So I get it.

By the time the new setup comes closer I will look around for some nice accessories like stands. These Korean stands look nice but have so far been impossible to find online.

I came to this forum after buying a Topping E50 DAC which is hooked up to a laptop for streaming and playing FLAC and 320 kbps MP3 files. Tape and vinyl are plans for the future again since I have nothing to play my vinyl with atm and the tape deck is going in for a complete revision.

 

[richard12511]

I would really love to see more modern Harbeth speakers measured.

I tend to really dislike the vintage look(Klipsch heritage, JBL L100), but for some reason I really like the look of Harbeth speakers with grills off.

 

[richard12511]

As I've written in the Welcome New Members to ASR, introduce yourself here-thread, I really liked the Harbeth Compact 7es-3 with the Rega Elex-R stereo amplifier when I still had them. Look at my stop-gap thread to see what the room looks like.

They had a fullness and clarity that I really liked, with some more instrumental recordings sending shivers down my spine. I listened to the Harbeth SHL5 Plus at a hifi store with the same amp and liked their extra bass and slight lift in clarity. It's good to hear the XD version of the 7's sound like a mini SHL5 but I will find a place to listen to them in time. It takes time to rebuild a setup like that. I'm not an audiophile but I do like good sound and gear. And since I'm only/already 34 and still have most of my hearing this is a long-term purchase.

Reposting the old setup:

Speakers ended up further away from the wall and on a set of adhesive Soundcare Spike 2

Congrats on your great purchase! Looks like you may also enjoy a good board game .

 

[DSJR]

I have worked in a store which sold high-end outdoor gear myself and I have to hold back from advising people whenever I visit shops. So I get it.

By the time the new setup comes closer I will look around for some nice accessories like stands. These Korean stands look nice but have so far been impossible to find online.

I came to this forum after buying a Topping E50 DAC which is hooked up to a laptop for streaming and playing FLAC and 320 kbps MP3 files. Tape and vinyl are plans for the future again since I have nothing to play my vinyl with atm and the tape deck is going in for a complete revision.

Harbeths with that Leben 'effects box' isn't a combination I'd recommend I admit (although it's better than Primaluna I gather). Target when in the UK used to make stands similar to that (very popular with Spendor SP1's years ago) and I have a set which for domestic harmony have been replaced with custom simple oak lamp tables the correct size which were cheap. If the style suits you, I'd go for it

Has the turntable gone now or do you still have it (apologies for off topic question)?

 

[ThoFi]

I would really love to see more modern Harbeth speakers measured.

I tend to really dislike the vintage look(Klipsch heritage, JBL L100), but for some reason I really like the look of Harbeth speakers with grills off.

I don’t know why there are no measurements of the XD-series around?
It makes me wonder why Harbeth do not release them Because Harberh is so called scientific, objective, measurement-based…
Anything to hide?

 

[JaccoW]

Harbeths with that Leben 'effects box' isn't a combination I'd recommend I admit (although it's better than Primaluna I gather). Target when in the UK used to make stands similar to that (very popular with Spendor SP1's years ago) and I have a set which for domestic harmony have been replaced with custom simple oak lamp tables the correct size which were cheap. If the style suits you, I'd go for it

Has the turntable gone now or do you still have it (apologies for off topic question)?

Yes the turntable is gone. It was her father's so she took it with her when she left. I don't mind though. Should be fun to find something nice myself. I can probably find a second-hand model for around €200 here and there seem to be a handful of people in my area that sell all kinds of aftermarket accessories like new covers in smoked acrylic with reinforced hinges.
I was thinking of getting a Rega Planar 3 in red. But I'll visit the local hifi store this weekend to listen to some things first.

 

[ThoFi]

Harbeths with that Leben 'effects box' isn't a combination I'd recommend I admit (although it's better than Primaluna I gather). Target when in the UK used to make stands similar to that (very popular with Spendor SP1's years ago) and I have a set which for domestic harmony have been replaced with custom simple oak lamp tables the correct size which were cheap. If the style suits you, I'd go for it

Has the turntable gone now or do you still have it (apologies for off topic question)?

I personally do recommend Harbeth SHL5+ with tube amps!

 

[DSJR]

As long as you're fully aware of the graphic equaliser that valve amps typically turn into when tracking the rollercoaster impedance curve exhibted by speakers such as these (across most makes incidentally). You may like the noises coming out, but it's not what the designer intended.

Same for removing the grilles, as the tweeters are smoothed slightly and the speaker optimised with grilles in place (an Australian measurement showed this claim to be correct) and apparently, the port's air flow is better damped with grille in place (no evidence I've seen yet to support this though). Doesn't stop audio masochists prising the tight fitting grilles off to show off all the ugly screws and even uglier drive units, or Harbeth over decades veneering the front baffles and sticking bling labels on them - you should see my Spendor BC2's with original white surround driver gauze covers peeled off and lousy finish and paintwork...

 

[ThoFi]

As long as you're fully aware of the graphic equaliser that valve amps typically turn into when tracking the rollercoaster impedance curve exhibted by speakers such as these (across most makes incidentally). You may like the noises coming out, but it's not what the designer intended.

Same for removing the grilles, as the tweeters are smoothed slightly and the speaker optimised with grilles in place (an Australian measurement showed this claim to be correct) and apparently, the port's air flow is better damped with grille in place (no evidence I've seen yet to support this though). Doesn't stop audio masochists prising the tight fitting grilles off to show off all the ugly screws and even uglier drive units, or Harbeth over decades veneering the front baffles and sticking bling labels on them - you should see my Spendor BC2's with original white surround driver gauze covers peeled off and lousy finish and paintwork...

View attachment 156383 View attachment 156382

Some do like equalized sound of tube amps and I really do not care about what the designer was intended.
The only thing matters to me is that my hifi gear works good with my room and my music.

And the grilles off and on discussions are ridiculous (measurement overkill nonsense). If this is important do never move your head out of the „sweetspot“ because this results in changes of high frequencies.

 

[DSJR]

Sweetspot *as heard* is wider than you'd think on modern Harbeths you know. Don't shoot the messenger where the grilles are concerned, but the hf response is objectively better (verified by third party tests) with grilles on.

There was a massive thing about Harbeth grille design from the SHL5 and C7 onwards. The cloth just touches the fronts of the tweeters so has less effect it's claimed,than distancing it out *apparently* and the 'frameless frame,' which needs their special tool to remove on mine, is deliberately recessed into a groove to minimise diffraction issues (the entire dispersion 'thing' with speakers like this may really be of academic interest in a larger room well away from boundaries as recommended by the manufacturer as sidewall reflections may be well down in level). Recommendation has always been away from walls with main tweeter at ear level, so toed towards the listener. It's only peeps like me with small rooms and a near to mid field distance that suffer boom and relection issues... In my case if using Harbeths, the C7-XD would almost certainly be better due to narrower baffle and slightly less bass extension, at least now th ebasic 'tone' is so similar to the 5+-XD.

Thofi, in your post #140 above - what the heck are you doing posting here on ASR when you say you don't care what the designer intended from his designs he spent so long developing? I repeat, the grilles *on this model* were carefully researched to be as nonintrusive as possible and to AID the performance of the speakers. Obviously once purchased, you can do what you like to them (one bod converted his XD Harbeths to bi-amp passive use, thereby destroying almost any residual value they had. But hey, they're his boxes so he can do whatever he likes with them... I remember the same with a now ancient Epos speaker, where the final design meant the port being turned into a 'controlled leak' with stuck in foam plugs. All the 'expert audiophiles' tore the foam out and liked the 80Hz boom that resulted (they all used Linn vinyl players mostly which back then added to the bassy syrup). the designer got so pissed off he just pushed the foams in tightly but didn't glue them in, so the end user could do what they liked - I put mine in sideways as a nice compromise with his blessing

I've been through the whole valve/tube thing twice in my hifi life, once with Quad and rather nice Radford amps in th emid 70's when the Radford wasn't that old and again around 1989 with some Tube Technology mono amps (with ARC SP14 preamp) which proved to be a disaster as they ate the poor thrashed 4 x EL34's a channel to 100W, said valves being knackered after less than a year! Maybe if I'd got a set of same-price (then) E.A.R. 509 cozy-toned mono's, they'd have lasted far longer! All these glowing bottles and over-lush tones just don't interest any more and I rather like the idea now of some of the new tiny power-boxes that can be hidden away (better still, half decent active speakers with amps inside, but hey, this is a Harbeth thread).