End Game Speakers - The Quest Continues

[AdamG]

Maybe helpful Video about Cardioid Subs/Speakers:

Cardioid Subs explained for Normal People

 

[Adi777]

Yes.

View attachment 350176

Promoted - Room Treatment – This Year's Snake Oil?

Buying great audio equipment doesn’t guarantee great sound. Your room will make huge changes to the sound of your speakers which prevents you from enjoying your music and movies at their best. As the room creates the problem, designing and treating it seems logical, but no matter how carefully...

www.avforums.com

Acoustic treatment = Snake oil? What? Ok, maybe sometimes, with a dishonest acoustician who is trying to make money off you, but apart from that? After all, acousticians perform acoustic measurements before and after adaptation, so, hmm, snake oil?

 

[Sokel]

Acoustic treatment = Snake oil? What? Ok, maybe sometimes, with a dishonest acoustician who is trying to make money off you, but apart from that? After all, acousticians perform acoustic measurements before and after adaptation, so, hmm, snake oil?

Oh,no,my post has nothing to do with the article except from the pic who shows the same speaker in different rooms.
I like to put the links of the pics I post.

(after all,hiring pros is exactly what I did for my room and 2 channel)

 

[srrxr71]

Hold on! I thought cardioid meant narrow directivity where the sound is not dispersed evenly but focussed forwards to the listening position to reduce room interactions. I don't believe the W371a is cardioid in the same way the 8c is. This seems to be borne out by the reduced XTC performance of the W371a (in any of its modes) compared to the 8c using BACCH4Mac (around a 5-7dB difference).

The continuous directivity mode is supposed to ensure a uniform sound dispersion pattern across the frequency range. I've found that this mode tends to give the flattest frequency response too. Honestly though, I can't tell which of the 5 modes I prefer and suspect I'd fail any blind preference test.

The W371a has three reflection-reducing modes (to minimise side, back or floor reflections). I suspect these are more cardioid than the continuous directivity mode. As my room is short front-to-back (3m), I use the back wall reflection-reducing mode.

Oh good to know. I’ll try the back steering mode next weekend.

The directivity of these is 30 degrees on either side so I thought continuous directivity will match that down the spectrum.

Subjectively it makes the bass sound tighter and more localizable. Like it’s attached to the position of a bass guitar better.

 

[srrxr71]

That makes a lot of sense to me.

The 3-4 decades that I was into home audio when I would have considered myself an audiophile, do feel looking back like I was on a merry-go-round....
of gear swapping...speakers, electronics, phono cartridges, then DACs, transports, yada.
Often going as much in a circle as achieving any real gains.

I switched to prosound speakers about 20 years ago which somehow led me to DIY. With DIY, I feel like I'm now on more of a mountain climb.
DIY speakers have given me a path of slow but steady, and near certain progress.

Sometimes a DIY attempt becomes trying to climb up the wrong mountain face or canyon. But once past the false start, info has been gained, the mountain gets remapped, and the climb continues.

I kinda hope I never lose the enthusiasm to keep climbing...it's fun, and it's certainly been paying off sonically.
I'm 10 for 10 in terms of how my system wowed the last 10 guests.
I never play anything until asked, then when asked, they choose at least the genre if not a specific track.
I don't have a sweet spot, not even any listening chairs. What I do have is probably the clearest, most dynamic, big SPL and bass, they've encountered....about anywhere i would daringly reckon.

I thought of going diy with accourate to do the crossovers etc. I even bought the book. Then I got lazy. Haha.

 

[srrxr71]

Who said I won’t have coaxial and reliability? I never did. And have you ever heard 40Hz cardioid before?

Anyway thank you for suggesting I try these other modes. Wow. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.

Once your physical infrastructure is great the rest is all in calibration and dsp. I can apply anything I feel like. Bacch accourate whatever.

 

[MKR]

Anyway thank you for suggesting I try these other modes. Wow. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.

Once your physical infrastructure is great the rest is all in calibration and dsp. I can apply anything I feel like. Bacch accourate whatever.

Very cool! And thank you for having such an open mind and giving it a try … I just thought it was a shame to have cardioid capability and not be using it. And again, it should allow you to reduce your room treatment.

 

[MKR]

Is that like blacker than black?

Blacker than dark grey

 

[MKR]

Which one of your finalists have a coaxial driver ?
"And have you ever heard 40Hz cardioid before?"-No

I cannot comment, but I let you read between the lines

 

[Adi777]

Oh,no,my post has nothing to do with the article except from the pic who shows the same speaker in different rooms.
I like to put the links of the pics I post.

Yes, I know I was thinking about user Rob Sinden.

 

[MKR]

Maybe the new D&D will be a coaxial who knows
He didn't like Genelec or KEF so not many coaxial options left (except Geithain )

Soundfield also has coaxial … you haven’t been paying attention PJ

 

[MKR]

For those interested in variable directivity (and I certainly am having heard it very well implemented on the Soundfield demos I had for several months), link to an upcoming presentation by B&O on the 90s development …

Development of Bang & Olufsen’s Beolab 90​

Tuesday, March 19, 2024, 7:00 - 8:30 p.m. GMT (UTC+0) Online
Speaker: Geoff Martin, Ph.D, Senior Technology Specialist in Sound Design at Bang & Olufsen, Struer Denmark
https://aes.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=e164a8d868cca8730021f4a7c&id=b7458fff6b&e=1af75399fa

Note as far as I know, only B&O and Soundfield offer variable directivity designs, but not 100% sure. Any others?

 

[Purité Audio]

There is a Harman speaker Lexicon perhaps, looks like a pepper grinder.
Keith

 

[srrxr71]

Lexicon SL-1: New high-end speaker system from HARMAN ensures perfect sound in every situation

Since its launch in 1971, Lexicon has been a genuine pioneer in audio technology, setting the standards for professional users as well as for demanding hi-fi enthusiasts. At the HIGH END (M.O.C. Munich, 9 May to 12 May 2019), the HARMAN Group will be...

news.harman.com

 

[kma100]

There is a Harman speaker Lexicon perhaps, looks like a pepper grinder.
Keith

Ha ha - most accurate description! Or a slimmed down Dalek

 

[Duke]

Note as far as I know, only B&O and Soundfield offer variable directivity designs, but not 100% sure. Any others?

Most of my designs have some independent adjustability of the relative loudness of the reflected sounds, and independent adjustability of the spectral balances of the direct and reflected sounds. The idea is to fine-tune the relative loudness of the reflections so they are neither too loud nor too soft, and to minimize the spectral discrepancy between the direct and reflected sounds. Some of my designs offer adjustability of the radiation pattern shape via the ability to independently aim the additional reflection energy. Obviously this is not in the same league as the dramatic pattern shape adjustability of the B&O or the Lexicon.

My designs are passive, so rather than digitally delaying the additional reflected energy, it is delayed by a geometry that imposes a relatively long reflection path length.

Can you describe the variable directivity of the Soundfield design(s)?

 

[MKR]

Lexicon SL-1: New high-end speaker system from HARMAN ensures perfect sound in every situation

Since its launch in 1971, Lexicon has been a genuine pioneer in audio technology, setting the standards for professional users as well as for demanding hi-fi enthusiasts. At the HIGH END (M.O.C. Munich, 9 May to 12 May 2019), the HARMAN Group will be...

news.harman.com

Never even heard of this one. Is it even available? No matter, at least back in 2019 when released cost is $40k (!), so I am sure well over that now, and well above my budget

But thanks for the info regardless!

 

[MKR]

Most of my designs have some independent adjustability of the relative loudness of the reflected sounds, and independent adjustability of the spectral balances of the direct and reflected sounds. The idea is to fine-tune the loudness of the reflections so they are neither too loud nor too soft, and to minimize the spectral discrepancy between the direct and refleted sounds. Some of my designs offer adjustability of the radiation pattern shape via the ability to independently aim the additional reflection energy. Obviously this is not in the same league as the dramatic pattern shape adjustability of the B&O or the Lexicon.

My designs are passive, so rather than digitally delaying the additional reflected energy, it is delayed by a geometry that imposes a relatively long reflection path length.

Thanks Duke … how do you adjust the different modes on the fly without DSP? Via passive crossover adjustments/dials, switches, etc?

 

[Duke]

Thanks Duke … how do you adjust the different modes on the fly without DSP? Via passive crossover adjustments/dials, switches, etc?

Yes, knobs and switches and a changeable external resistor. So you have to get up and walk over and reach behind the speaker to twiddle the knobs and flip the switches and/or change the resistor.

I added a question about Soundfield's adjustability to my post while you were posting.

 

[MKR]

Yes, knobs and switches and a changeable external resistor. So you have to get up and walk over and reach behind the speaker to twiddle the knobs and flip the switches and/or change the resistor.

I added a question about Soundfield's adjustability to my post while you were posting.

Understood, thanks

As to how Soundfield implements, it is done via the Hypex Fusion DSP and a nifty remote, no getting your lazy bum off the couch