Nice Talk with Paul Barton of PSB Speakers

[Sal1950]

When I was a youngster back in the 50s and early 60s I was in love with this type of old tech.
I was always dragging something like this home to the general displeasure of my parents. LOL
That was a kool time though, many people wanted to get rid of what they then considered eyesores,
as modern tech was bringing in ever smaller and more modern gear.
Some worked, some I was able to repair, others just went to the garbage pile but it was all fun to me.
And most used big speakers and could play loud and really rock the R&R music that was just then
exploding onto the radio and into my beloved music world. Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Motown,
give em to me!

 

[Doodski]

When I was a youngster back in the 50s and early 60s I was in love with this type of old tech.
I was always dragging something like this home to the general displeasure of my parents. LOL
That was a kool time though, many people wanted to get rid of what they then considered eyesores,
as modern tech was bringing in ever smaller and more modern gear.
Some worked, some I was able to repair, others just went to the garbage pile but it was all fun to me.
And most used big speakers and could play loud and really rock the R&R music that was just then
exploding onto the radio and into my beloved music world. Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Motown,
give em to me!

If I dragged home something like this my mother would have been veryyyy impressed and happy. She loved antiques and especially old gramophones and radios.

 

[Sal1950]

If I dragged home something like this my mother would have been veryyyy impressed and happy. She loved antiques and especially old gramophones and radios.

Well to give my super wonderful parents their just due, they were displeased over the junk I dragged into the basement
and blasted rock and roll with. LOL
But on the other hand were very proud and supportive of their pre-teen/teen son was so interested in electronics and were sure
I was on to bigger and better things in life.
Sadly it didn't quite happen that way.

 

[Doodski]

Well to give my super wonderful parents their just due, they were displeased over the junk I dragged into the basement
and blasted rock and roll with. LOL
But on the other hand were very proud and supportive of their pre-teen/teen son was so interested in electronics and were sure
I was on to bigger and better things in life.
Sadly it didn't quite happen that way.

Being a HD Mechanic is a honest living and can be a good living too if one is a good mechanic or a shop owner. When I hung out at the outdoor equipment/motorcycle shop for a ~decade and worked there too I worked with several motorcycle mechanics and they all loved the work and lived the lifestyle too. I consider the lifestyle to be unique and not like any other and attracts some pretty nice people too. Where else can one go for a 700 mile ride in a day and then go snowmobiling on the weekend and ride dirt bikes on Monday. It's a far out lifestyle.

 

[mps]

I was surprised to hear Paul Barton seemingly agreeing with Darko just after the 32 minute mark that high-pass filtering the power mains can improve subwoofer performance. Did I mishear? Is that legit?

 

[tesseractASR]

Darko being Darko.

I only respect him for his taste with electronic music, but that's as far as it goes.

Try drinking with him.

I did have the chance to enjoy a nice 90 minute dinner conversation with Mr. Barton once, set up by Mr. Matthew Poes.

 

[Sal1950]

Try drinking with him.

With Darko, oh hell no.
One of us would leave by ambulance and the other by police car. LOL

 

[MattHooper]

With Darko, oh hell no.
One of us would leave by ambulance and the other by police car. LOL

Are you aware of how big Darko is Sal? He's a giant (over 6.5 feet IIRC).

My money's on Darko

 

[Sal1950]

Are you aware of how big Darko is Sal? He's a giant (over 6.5 feet IIRC).

That don't make him bullet-proof. LOL

 

[Axo1989]

Are you aware of how big Darko is Sal? He's a giant (over 6.5 feet IIRC).

My money's on Darko

The thread posting a nine month old podcast rapidly turning turning into an I-hate-Darko whinge-fest is to be expected, and part of the zeitgeist, but that poster's reaction is just [redacted]. Come on, seriously?

 

[JSmith]

Also it is surprising that Darko sometimes interviews very measurement oriented people who explain many things but keeps going on with his ridiculous subjectivist impressions, like DAC and Streamer sound differences, weights on gear and the like.

Plus he also blocks any hot-linking to his site from ASR... also surprising.


JSmith

 

[goat76]

Many people often say that everything but a home demo of loudspeakers is a waste of time and that we can never judge the sound of the loudspeakers in a different room, a demo room at a store, or in your friend's listening room.

The thing is that if it's true that we sort out the room from the sound of the loudspeaker in less than 20 minutes, it means that we can indeed judge the sound quality away from our own listening room. We just need to get used to the acoustics of a demo room or our friend's listening room, either by having longer listening sessions or visiting the rooms enough times and getting used to the acoustics of those rooms.

I have had many listening sessions in my local HiFi shop and gotten used to their demo rooms which have good acoustics, and it's not like the loudspeakers I've heard both in their rooms and at my home sounds as completely different speakers, instead the main part of the sound characteristics remain and it's mostly in the lower bass department the loudspeakers pressurizing the rooms differently which is expected.

 

[Purité Audio]

That is true, but if you are comparing two ‘possibles’ against your current set-up obviously that should be conducted at home.
Keith

 

[Koeitje]

My point--if the music was produced using that 'well known speaker' then it should sound best when replayed using that speaker (again). Keep the votes in! These pals know.

But how do you know what speaker was used? That is always an unknown (but most likely something that is neutral), and the best way to deal with that is by using a good neutral loudspeaker with smooth directivity so you van EQ if needed.

 

[audiofooled]

The room will impart the same in mono. I routinely evaluate how big of a halo/diffused sound a speaker has in mono.

I agree. It is though something one should try before can understand the benefits. It's just a more simple, monophonic single speaker/room interaction which includes reflections just as well. Directivity will play it's role in this case too. The moment you introduce another speaker in stereo, you have an increase in SPL (or perhaps lower distortion if you decrease the volume to compensate), image shift to the center, ITD's, ILD's which can mask a lot of otherwise audible performance issues.

Still, I think stereo is fine, but in case of a valid reference point, i.e. when using a set of well known tracks you're bored to death with. Still, you can use them in mono just as well?

 

[charleski]

I was surprised to hear Paul Barton seemingly agreeing with Darko just after the 32 minute mark that high-pass filtering the power mains can improve subwoofer performance. Did I mishear? Is that legit?

They're talking about dynamic compression as a result of voice-coil heating in this bit. He's saying that a hpf on the main speakers will lead to less power going to the woofers on the main speakers, and thus less heating in the woofers in the main speakers. This seems reasonable. This refers to the main speakers only, not the subwoofers.

This has nothing to do with filtering the AC power, if that's the impression you got, they're talking about filtering the signal.

 

[goat76]

I had to read this statement several times to make sure I was properly comprehending this information. Paradigm shift.

Another words testing in Stereo will trick the listener into believing that the fidelity and tonality of the Speakers is better than it really is. Stereo testing will hide/mask weaknesses and flaws in the Speaker design. In your vast collective personal experience testing Speakers, how big/drastic can this Stereo Masking be?

I have never conducted a demo of a speaker in mono when shopping for speakers. They have always been set up in stereo pairs. Are we all being “Catfished” by Sales Associates? I just had a personal moment of oh crap. Everything I thought I knew about how various speakers sound is wrong. Because I always demoed speakers in stereo pairs and almost always listened to whatever music they had playing. I incorrectly believed that good imaging was a product of the “stereo effect” but you are saying that this is incorrect and that the source of good imaging is music dependent and baked in the recording! I think I need an aspirin

Thanks Amir. I think…..?…?…

How the listener perceives imaging is dependent both on the recording and the properties of the loudspeakers, that's why Paul says that imaging mostly comes from recorded content. Some loudspeakers present a wider stereo image which Revel speakers are well known for, while some speakers are better than others in representing the depth and layering of the recorded content. I don't think it comes as a big surprise for most people that most of the stereo image is baked into the recording itself.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Many people often say that everything but a home demo of loudspeakers is a waste of time and that we can never judge the sound of the loudspeakers in a different room, a demo room at a store, or in your friend's listening room.

The thing is that if it's true that we sort out the room from the sound of the loudspeaker in less than 20 minutes, it means that we can indeed judge the sound quality away from our own listening room. We just need to get used to the acoustics of a demo room or our friend's listening room, either by having longer listening sessions or visiting the rooms enough times and getting used to the acoustics of those rooms.

I have had many listening sessions in my local HiFi shop and gotten used to their demo rooms which have good acoustics, and it's not like the loudspeakers I've heard both in their rooms and at my home sounds as completely different speakers, instead the main part of the sound characteristics remain and it's mostly in the lower bass department the loudspeakers pressurizing the rooms differently which is expected.

You are talking about speaker auditioning under familiar conditions, if not one's home then some other very familiar location.

What is worthless is trying to judge a speaker (or most any other component) in a hotel room at an audio show.

 

[goat76]

That is true, but if you are comparing two ‘possibles’ against your current set-up obviously that should be conducted at home.
Keith

If non of the two 'possibles' sounds obviously better than my current setup at home, I see no reason to bring any of them home in the first place.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I don't think it comes as a big surprise for most people that most of the stereo image is baked into the recording itself.

It should not, most being the key word.
What the speakers will let trough to reach our brain trough our ears is the obvious (obvious to me ) image difference we perceive when listening from the different speakers. On the same token, even greater difference can be heard/perceived from the same speakers but positioned differently in relation to the LP.
But yes, they have to be present in the recording to start with and the recording is most likely the main/predominant ingredient.