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GR Research Klipsch RP-600M Upgrade Review (speaker)

Rate this speaker mod:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 39 21.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 111 61.0%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 24 13.2%

  • Total voters
    182
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Is Danny from Gr right about Amir being wrong about eq and that it can't fix the phase cancellation in the stock speakers?
 
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amirm

amirm

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Is Danny from Gr right about Amir being wrong about eq and that it can't fix the phase cancellation in the stock speakers?
No. His argument was not even coherent. I plan to do a video and explain.
 

kokakolia

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Saying this in a polite way......

You seem to lack understanding of how things work.
You seem fixated on these "Full range" speakers you speak of.

When someone starts calling out amps by brand name, and calling them a POS, your credibility goes WAYYYYY down.

I have owned many brands of amps, and if anything, as long as one is not pushing them into distortion etc, they tend to all sound much more towards the same, than totally different.
The Yamaha RN402 amp is entry level and feels anemic. I'm sure that costlier amps from the same brand would sound better. POS was an overstatement, I should have said anemic as it is holding my speakers back.
You are sounding like you are trying to use this thread to promote this OGY speaker you keep brining up.

We get it, you think a 4" full range speaker with literally no crossover, is the cats meow, and is perfect.............:facepalm:
They are the cats meow. Find me a speaker this size that can output bass like that. They are underrated. At the same time the EMS LB5 drivers are $300/unit and the cabinet is really expensive to manufacture.

If the OGY were priced around $1000/pair to compete with the LS50, they would make a huge splash. But they cost the double. It's no wonder that this type of design is so unpopular. It's so much easier/cost effective to use a simple MDF box, a basic crossover and a cheap & effective tweeter + woofer combo.
 

YSC

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The Yamaha RN402 amp is entry level and feels anemic. I'm sure that costlier amps from the same brand would sound better. POS was an overstatement, I should have said anemic as it is holding my speakers back.

They are the cats meow. Find me a speaker this size that can output bass like that. They are underrated. At the same time the EMS LB5 drivers are $300/unit and the cabinet is really expensive to manufacture.

If the OGY were priced around $1000/pair to compete with the LS50, they would make a huge splash. But they cost the double. It's no wonder that this type of design is so unpopular. It's so much easier/cost effective to use a simple MDF box, a basic crossover and a cheap & effective tweeter + woofer combo.
Well, entry level amp imo don’t sound different to more expensive one unless you are running ridiculously power hungry speakers which make them run out of juice.. so that looks more mentally found excuse/ reasoning for the speaker to not perform


The OGY is a ok speaker but not really great, especially when what they provide is in room measurement, not anechoic where the flat point should be similar for any active speaker with 5” woofer and a port. The ogy didn’t even specify the SPL they measured and are there in room eq, remember you can get up to 12db bass boost if it’s placed near a corner
 

Vacceo

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That's absolutely not correct.

Klipsch lovers be like, horns...

1840634860_BlackGateJubesMeme.jpg.ae04a50c2e5c820f27dea646bad13ba4.jpg



JSmith
There are better horns for music:

NTEtMjQxOS5qcGVn.jpeg
 

kokakolia

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Well, entry level amp imo don’t sound different to more expensive one unless you are running ridiculously power hungry speakers which make them run out of juice.. so that looks more mentally found excuse/ reasoning for the speaker to not perform


The OGY is a ok speaker but not really great, especially when what they provide is in room measurement, not anechoic where the flat point should be similar for any active speaker with 5” woofer and a port. The ogy didn’t even specify the SPL they measured and are there in room eq, remember you can get up to 12db bass boost if it’s placed near a corner
Says the guy who never listened to a pair... It seems like you want to argue through X, Y and Z that they suck without giving them a listen. I don't get why you're so insistant that amplifiers don't make a difference. If that's the case, everyone should just use $80 Aiyima amplifiers with TPA 3255 boards because they "measure well" and the rated power is plenty.

I played the OGY with the Yamaha RN402 and with the custom EL34 tube amplifier. There's significantly more bass and mids with the tube amplifier. But it's impossible to argue without real world listening. Graphs can only do so much.

Re: in-room measurements/anachoic measurements. I can't provide that. I only have subjective impressions.
 

Vacceo

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Says the guy who never listened to a pair... It seems like you want to argue through X, Y and Z that they suck without giving them a listen. I don't get why you're so insistant that amplifiers don't make a difference. If that's the case, everyone should just use $80 Aiyima amplifiers with TPA 3255 boards because they "measure well" and the rated power is plenty.

I played the OGY with the Yamaha RN402 and with the custom EL34 tube amplifier. There's significantly more bass and mids with the tube amplifier. But it's impossible to argue without real world listening. Graphs can only do so much.

Re: in-room measurements/anachoic measurements. I can't provide that. I only have subjective impressions.
The difference is the distortion.
 

tomtoo

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Says the guy who never listened to a pair... It seems like you want to argue through X, Y and Z that they suck without giving them a listen. I don't get why you're so insistant that amplifiers don't make a difference. If that's the case, everyone should just use $80 Aiyima amplifiers with TPA 3255 boards because they "measure well" and the rated power is plenty.

I played the OGY with the Yamaha RN402 and with the custom EL34 tube amplifier. There's significantly more bass and mids with the tube amplifier. But it's impossible to argue without real world listening. Graphs can only do so much.

Re: in-room measurements/anachoic measurements. I can't provide that. I only have subjective impressions.

See if there is more bass with the tube than it is couse the tube is a shiit amp.Low damping factor leads to a bigger FR dependency on the impedance from cable and speaker.
Get a good amp and a dsp eq, a much better,cheaper, flexibel,consitend way to change the FR responce. Its a strange way to use the weaknes of a amp for eq.
 
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kokakolia

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The difference is the distortion.
What amp do you use then? For me, life is too short to live with an Aiyima A07
See if there is more bass with the tube than it is couse the tube is a shiit amp.Low damping factor leads to a bigger FR dependency on the impedance from cable and speaker.
Get a good amp and a dsp eq, a much better,cheaper, flexibel way to change the FR responce.
It sounds heavenly to me. I got this amplifier hand-built by an artisan in France. This amplifier is one of a kind. It has sentimental value. Should I use an inferior amplifier to satisfy your preferences?
 

tomtoo

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What amp do you use then? For me, life is too short to live with an Aiyima A07

It sounds heavenly to me. I got this amplifier hand-built by an artisan in France. This amplifier is one of a kind. It has sentimental value. Should I use an inferior amplifier to satisfy your preferences?

See i dont care what you like or not and you have not to care what i like. But calling a amp that changes FR with impedance superior is just plain wrong. Especially when this happens in a region where we can hear it. Sentimental things like look, or who build it are not interesting for me.
 

Vacceo

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What amp do you use then? For me, life is too short to live with an Aiyima A07

It sounds heavenly to me. I got this amplifier hand-built by an artisan in France. This amplifier is one of a kind. It has sentimental value. Should I use an inferior amplifier to satisfy your preferences?
A Denon, an Onkyo and a pair of LS50 wireless II.

Whatever you like to use is fine, but there is no mumbo jumbo about what an amp does.
 

YSC

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Says the guy who never listened to a pair... It seems like you want to argue through X, Y and Z that they suck without giving them a listen. I don't get why you're so insistant that amplifiers don't make a difference. If that's the case, everyone should just use $80 Aiyima amplifiers with TPA 3255 boards because they "measure well" and the rated power is plenty.

I played the OGY with the Yamaha RN402 and with the custom EL34 tube amplifier. There's significantly more bass and mids with the tube amplifier. But it's impossible to argue without real world listening. Graphs can only do so much.

Re: in-room measurements/anachoic measurements. I can't provide that. I only have subjective impressions.
I somehow have listened to a pair of RP600 way before I really get into speakers in a store, it never impressed and with the price I just never bother to buy one, it's casual trying in a local store years ago though.

for OGY, in room measurement is what we can see about bass and mid quantity, subjective impression is meaningless as in any speaker able to reproduce till like 50-60hz, near a room with a free EQ APO in PC I can make bass and mids being significantly more... I've actually done the opposite to my pair of Genelecs where I put on a desktop, and the reflections get me a ton of mid bass around 100-200hz which to a point of boomy, where subsequently I did use EQ and built in dip switches to make it more balanced objectively and no regret using that as music listening.

The using tube amp have significantly more bass is no myth, it's just kind of a hardware EQ effect box preset for you, just not on software side... life is too short and money too valuable to be wasted on something with high price and no objective performance to justify.

Speaking of amp not a problem when using within it's design margin/power, the 8030C is the most natural and good sounding speaker I have ever owned/ with extended listen, it's SQ when used in my small room with the EQ tweaks matches closely with a friend's Vivid G1 with Audionote Ongaku tube amp which cost a lot. of course max SPL in a large living room there is no match between the two, but my 2.1 system of Genelec sounds great at nearfield listening. And the amp it use is... a TPA 3118 built in. which is one of the cheapest you can get in any external amp
 

kokakolia

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I somehow have listened to a pair of RP600 way before I really get into speakers in a store, it never impressed and with the price I just never bother to buy one, it's casual trying in a local store years ago though.

for OGY, in room measurement is what we can see about bass and mid quantity, subjective impression is meaningless as in any speaker able to reproduce till like 50-60hz, near a room with a free EQ APO in PC I can make bass and mids being significantly more... I've actually done the opposite to my pair of Genelecs where I put on a desktop, and the reflections get me a ton of mid bass around 100-200hz which to a point of boomy, where subsequently I did use EQ and built in dip switches to make it more balanced objectively and no regret using that as music listening.

The using tube amp have significantly more bass is no myth, it's just kind of a hardware EQ effect box preset for you, just not on software side... life is too short and money too valuable to be wasted on something with high price and no objective performance to justify.

Speaking of amp not a problem when using within it's design margin/power, the 8030C is the most natural and good sounding speaker I have ever owned/ with extended listen, it's SQ when used in my small room with the EQ tweaks matches closely with a friend's Vivid G1 with Audionote Ongaku tube amp which cost a lot. of course max SPL in a large living room there is no match between the two, but my 2.1 system of Genelec sounds great at nearfield listening. And the amp it use is... a TPA 3118 built in. which is one of the cheapest you can get in any external amp
Ok these are reasonable arguments. Yes, the tube amplifier isn't neutral and it may add bass. And that's very desirable IMHO.

I love the tube amplifier pairing with the speakers. It's not wasted money if I'm enjoying it immensely. To me, the Klipsch RP600M and Yamaha RN402 combo felt kind of wasteful since it didn't bring me much joy. I purchased the Yamaha/Klipsch combo for 620€ and I resold the combo for 450€ 2 years later. So the value is unbeatable.

I don't value my purchase on objective performance like you do.
 

YSC

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Ok these are reasonable arguments. Yes, the tube amplifier isn't neutral and it may add bass. And that's very desirable IMHO.

I love the tube amplifier pairing with the speakers. It's not wasted money if I'm enjoying it immensely. To me, the Klipsch RP600M and Yamaha RN402 combo felt kind of wasteful since it didn't bring me much joy. I purchased the Yamaha/Klipsch combo for 620€ and I resold the combo for 450€ 2 years later. So the value is unbeatable.

I don't value my purchase on objective performance like you do.
well that's not a problem, since it is a hobby, not a job, what we need a only enjoyment and not absolutely performance or resale value.

But what in this thread initially is simpler:

1) The original Klipsch performance is not good
2) The mod did improved it but at quite a steep cost

when second hand cost and resale value is in the formula it's a kind of only applicable to individual case, hell I even once buy a second hand sports car, drive a few years and sold with some earnings! but well, not repeatable by others in most cases.

The changed FR (i.e. sound) by a tube amp is desirable by a lot of person, that's why they still exist, no argue on that, but than the Yamaha amp isn't POS or very bad amp either, just in that combo don't cut the cake for you (as predicted by a transparent amp without modding the FR of the speaker and the speaker itself is not bassy and with a valley in the vocal region). Since here is ASR, folks lurking here will highly likely prefer something much cheaper, simpler and if the effect is desired, just go with a pair of neutral speaker (active/passive), doesn't distort like hell, and use EQ to make those effects, at a much cheaper cost.

I personally don't really value resale value as what I enjoy is the music, and sound effect quality when playing games/ movies, when it's very satisfying, I won't sell it and try something else, which would 90% of the time cost some more money on the way.
 

Vacceo

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Ok these are reasonable arguments. Yes, the tube amplifier isn't neutral and it may add bass. And that's very desirable IMHO.

I love the tube amplifier pairing with the speakers. It's not wasted money if I'm enjoying it immensely. To me, the Klipsch RP600M and Yamaha RN402 combo felt kind of wasteful since it didn't bring me much joy. I purchased the Yamaha/Klipsch combo for 620€ and I resold the combo for 450€ 2 years later. So the value is unbeatable.

I don't value my purchase on objective performance like you do.
Adding bass is a cool thing. That is what subwoofers are for.
 

kokakolia

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well that's not a problem, since it is a hobby, not a job, what we need a only enjoyment and not absolutely performance or resale value.

But what in this thread initially is simpler:

1) The original Klipsch performance is not good
2) The mod did improved it but at quite a steep cost

when second hand cost and resale value is in the formula it's a kind of only applicable to individual case, hell I even once buy a second hand sports car, drive a few years and sold with some earnings! but well, not repeatable by others in most cases.

The changed FR (i.e. sound) by a tube amp is desirable by a lot of person, that's why they still exist, no argue on that, but than the Yamaha amp isn't POS or very bad amp either, just in that combo don't cut the cake for you (as predicted by a transparent amp without modding the FR of the speaker and the speaker itself is not bassy and with a valley in the vocal region). Since here is ASR, folks lurking here will highly likely prefer something much cheaper, simpler and if the effect is desired, just go with a pair of neutral speaker (active/passive), doesn't distort like hell, and use EQ to make those effects, at a much cheaper cost.

I personally don't really value resale value as what I enjoy is the music, and sound effect quality when playing games/ movies, when it's very satisfying, I won't sell it and try something else, which would 90% of the time cost some more money on the way.
1) The Klipsch RP600M perform very well, considering the price. It's just silly that folks here look at the dip in the FR graphs, lose it and call the speaker bad.
2) The mod is completely optional. I insist upon that because the RP600M is very loved in the audiophile community. The hype is insane. If you don't like the RP600M out of the box, why bother modding it? I insist that the GR Research mod tranformed the RP600M into a GR Research speaker, removing some of the characteristic Klipsch sound signature.

3) Re: assumptions on what people want. Well, it's not clear. Most folks just have a fixed budget and are clueless about what product to purchase. Other folks just seek validation for their purchase. Ultimately, this "objective performance" attitude towards the hobby is creating a shortlist of products. And everything outside of that shortlist is "bad". The Klipsch didn't make that shortlist, they're "bad" (even if the audiophile community outside of ASR adores the RP600M).

The "tube amplifiers are distortion factories" assumption is frankly shortsighted and annoying. There are different types of distortion, some of which is desirable. I was seeking a particular sound coloration which tubes provide. I doubt that EQ can fully replicate what tubes are doing. And the practice of EQing amplifiers to sound more like tubes just isn't mentioned outside of ASR.

I spent north of 5000€ on my setup because I can. That was my budget. I can afford it. I was at a crossroads between collecting average products with insane value like the Klipsch RP600M/Yamaha RN402 or buying my final speakers and my final amplifier because I can. I also have a REL T5x sub which I haven't felt the need to unbox yet.
 
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YSC

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1) The Klipsch RP600M perform very well, considering the price. It's just silly that folks here look at the dip in the FR graphs, lose it and call the speaker bad.
2) The mod is completely optional. I insist upon that because the RP600M is very loved in the audiophile community. The hype is insane. If you don't like the RP600M out of the box, why bother modding it? I insist that the GR Research mod tranformed the RP600M into a GR Research speaker, removing some of the characteristic Klipsch sound signature.

3) Re: assumptions on what people want. Well, it's not clear. Most folks just have a fixed budget and are clueless about what product to purchase. Other folks just seek validation for their purchase. Ultimately, this "objective performance" attitude towards the hobby is creating a shortlist of products. And everything outside of that shortlist is "bad". The Klipsch didn't make that shortlist, they're "bad" (even if the audiophile community outside of ASR adores the RP600M).

The "tube amplifiers are distortion factories" assumption is frankly shortsighted and annoying. There are different types of distortion, some of which is desirable. I was seeking a particular sound coloration which tubes provide. I doubt that EQ can fully replicate what tubes are doing. And the practice of EQing amplifiers to sound more like tubes just isn't mentioned outside of ASR.

I spent north of 5000€ on my setup because I can. That was my budget. I can afford it. I was at a crossroads between collecting average products with insane value like the Klipsch RP600M/Yamaha RN402 or buying my final speakers and my final amplifier because I can. I also have a REL T5x sub which I haven't felt the need to unbox yet.
Not going to argue the whole thing, but I think you misunderstood something

The klipsch original version supposedly is considered not good by klipsch themselves. And that’s why the v2 of the speaker just fix that dip.

The hype is not really a good indicator of good products but more of ok products that promotes well. Of course everyone can have their own taste, just like some ppl can buy art which use duct tape to stick a banana on wall for millions…

Here it’s basically based on years of research of controlled test that if doing blind tests, most ppl prefer a neutral speaker in a good room, and came up with the target curves. Of course those curves are by no means universal, it have a few variations out there which is popular

For distortion arguement one is always entitled to personal taste just like food. But with enough know how you can add those in digital domain much cheaper. And I forgot where I read quite some time ago a test where ppl saw the amp switched from chip to tube and instantly hear night and day difference. Which ended up neither sighted amp is really driving the speakers but a chip amp in the back. I would say enjoy whatever you like. My statement that the tube amp is basically a preset effect box holds. The effect be it changing FR or add distortion, plus the eye candy psychological effects. One is always welcomed to enjoy their own way of adding flavours
 

voodooless

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the RP600M is very loved in the audiophile community. The hype is insane.
The audiophile community also love their $ 1800 coax cables, or the M-Scaler.. love for something says very little about the actual performance of a product.

I guess the fact that they sound so different has a lot to do with the appeal. It gets people attention in the showroom, and makes a sale easier.

None of this makes it a well performing speaker. It’s objectively not. That doesn’t mean you (or anyone) cannot like it though.

There are different types of distortion, some of which is desirable.
Why would that be desirable? We’re trying to reproduce music as it was intended by the artists. Coloring the sound with distortion is not part of this. If the artist wants coloration, they can add that at their own discretion.
 

beagleman

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No. His argument was not even coherent. I plan to do a video and explain.
Did you not hear?

Danny made an apology video, but it starts off seemingly sorry, then quickly turns to how he had to try to educate those that are not "in the know" about audio.....

I think he simply does not get how he comes off sounding....wow.
 
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