GR Research Klipsch RP-600M Upgrade Review (speaker)

[Rick Sykora]

If you carefully watch his video for this mod, take note that how he uses scaling to make the woofer response worse than it would be if done on more typical scale. When he makes his change, he lowers the tweeter crossover without measuring whether the tweeter would distort worse pushing it lower.

p.s. Btw, the GR mod reduces the tweeter filter to first order. This could also likely jeopardize the power handling of the tweeter and make it more susceptible to failure.

 

[tw 2022]

Fair enough, I just use an eq. Serves the same purpose.

If you already have rew and dsp, that's certainly another option, no argument there..another plus of a mod : even if you are eq' ing you are starting from a better place..at least in theory..

 

[alohashirt]

I don't have access to the kit. The owner did the mod and I don't want to disassemble the speaker just to take a picture. Company has a video on the mod.

I think that the fact that the RP600m were released and garnered wildly enthusiastic reviewer comments

• much hype was generated and thousands were sold
• not everyone loved the sound
• Danny at GR Research received a pair, was very critical, and built an upgrade kit
• A consumer sent an upgraded speaker to Amir
• Amir did tests and reported both test results and subjective listening reactions
• A productive discussion ensued here

This is an enormous win for the community in terms of sharing factual data and subjective experience. Regardless of whether it makes sense financially for someone to purchase a pair of these and spend money/time modding them it's interesting to see the whole experience broken down. Some well known reviewers are dismissive of the whole notion of upgrading. As someone with tremendous curiosity I think it's wonderful that this community and the upgrading community exist - it blows away some of the smoke of mystique.

Thank you Amir for this very positive contribution to improving the shared knowledge of the community.

 

[alohashirt]

I'll explain. The RP600M sounds LEAN. It sucks the life out of acoustic guitar for example. Bass guitar also sounds way recessed.

I'm describing from memory why I didn't like using the RP600M for 2 years straight. Heck I was bummed when I listened to my dad's Q Acoustics 2020 speakers. I thought that they ran circles around the Klipsch RP600M.

I probably have the worst taste in music from folk punk, to sad girl garage rock to millenial dad rock, to vaporwave etc... And I listened to nothing but Animal Collective during my college years.

I have an experience that may or may not be relevant. I acquired an Onkyo receiver from a "HiFi in a box product." With the Onkyo speakers everything sounded thin and nasty. I had just moved into an enormous box of an apartment above a noisy Mexican restuarant. The living room was 25'x40' with 18' ceilings and I figured "I need big speakers." I bought a open box pair of Klipsch Forte 3 speakers. The system sounded great, for music that is very similar to your taste ( Billy Bragg, Lucinda Williams, Casisdead, Underworld ) but was exhausting. I had to turn it off after 40 minutes and rest. It still sounded thin. I bought a $400 Chine tube amplifier (Reisong Boyuu A10) and the world changed. Everything sounded musical. I would listn until 4am each night. I caught COVID and was fired from my job - but listened to a lot of music. The system was always a bit muddy. Today there's a smart youtuber who has come up with mods for this and other cheap Chinese tube amps (skunkielabs) and I'm considering doing this. Alas the apartment is gone and now my gear is in an 8'x9' living room. It doesnt sound remotely as good.

It may or be may not be relevant to your listening experience

 

[Mario Soldier]

Blasphemy or Conqueror on Klipsch will solve all high frequency problems. Because those bands don't use high frequencies.

Finally someone over here that tests speakers like me, with some sonic monstrosities!

Understand "DEath Metal,Black Metal" is my Music and i like the KLipsch RF7 MK3 But i have and room acusstically edited.And the Preamp is an AVR with room correction.also there are running an 2x10 subwoofer an 1x12 subwoofer and an 2x18 subwoofer. Music i only hear stereo....

 

[beagleman]

Still makes me just wonder about a better speaker rather than "fix" a big box store speaker....

The problem as I see it. Sure this makes it much more ideal.

But most "Better" speakers, end up having issues also, but just different issues, or they cost an arm and a leg overall.
For someone that owns this speaker, a VERY nice upgrade in sound.

 

[BruceinMN]

As a consumer (and technical operative) I am baffled by the technical review in this forum of the Klipsch RP-600M and the review by Steve Guttenberg who is a well-respected audiophile reviewer who has reviewed 100's if not more) speakers. I understand the audio results of these speakers in the review on this site but why is there such a disconnect between the review here and the review by Steve Guttenberg? I imagine Steve relies on his ears for a review and that is influenced by the room, the amplifier and the position of the reviewer for the outcome. I recently purchased these speakers and I'm absolutely blown away by the presence, soundstage, bass, highs, lows, of these speakers. But I'm comparing them to speakers from the 70's and 80's so there is that. I would like to know why these speakers sound so bad to one person, and are the best audio device for another person in 2018 f(Steve Guttenberg)?

Bruce in MN

 

[amirm]

As a consumer (and technical operative) I am baffled by the technical review in this forum of the Klipsch RP-600M and the review by Steve Guttenberg who is a well-respected audiophile reviewer who has reviewed 100's if not more) speakers. I understand the audio results of these speakers in the review on this site but why is there such a disconnect between the review here and the review by Steve Guttenberg? I imagine Steve relies on his ears for a review and that is influenced by the room, the amplifier and the position of the reviewer for the outcome.

Simplest explanation is that Steve creates informercials for companies, masquerading as reviews. He likes everything he reviews. He is good on camera and comes across and sincere and trustworthy. But there is no factual foundation to what he does. FYI I have tested nearly 200 speakers so if he has only done 100, I am double that!

Of note, he has no formal engineering or listener training. Reviewers like him were tested formally and did very poorly:

Above graph says that they have a hard time agreeing with themselves when evaluating the sound of speakers in blind tests.

My approach is different in that I measure and that measurement tells us a ton as to whether someone will like their results. The testing showed this on the left:

You have a wide trough in the response which means what you hear is colored that way. Now, like the college students, reviewers and sales people, it doesn't mean that you will hear such an impression with ad-hoc testing. In a controlled test however, you will prefer a speaker without such a hole.

Net, net, don't judge what we do with what another reviewer is doing. There is a proper way to do this, and there is an entertaining way. The former is what we do.

 

[Talisman]

As a consumer (and technical operative) I am baffled by the technical review in this forum of the Klipsch RP-600M and the review by Steve Guttenberg who is a well-respected audiophile reviewer who has reviewed 100's if not more) speakers. I understand the audio results of these speakers in the review on this site but why is there such a disconnect between the review here and the review by Steve Guttenberg? I imagine Steve relies on his ears for a review and that is influenced by the room, the amplifier and the position of the reviewer for the outcome. I recently purchased these speakers and I'm absolutely blown away by the presence, soundstage, bass, highs, lows, of these speakers. But I'm comparing them to speakers from the 70's and 80's so there is that. I would like to know why these speakers sound so bad to one person, and are the best audio device for another person in 2018 f(Steve Guttenberg)?

Bruce in MN

Your approach to the issue is incorrect. What you feel is that these two reviews are somehow at odds, the reality is that they are simply saying two different things.
Guttemberg (if intellectually honest) talks about his subjective experience with these speakers. Amir, on the other hand, studies them from a pure performance/engineering point of view.
Many struggle to accept that something less technically correct can be more enjoyable, for me this is not a problem. I am 100% convinced of the validity of Amir's measurements, but the rp600m were still the bookshelf speaker that I enjoyed listening to the most and that made me want to sit down and listen to music over and over again, even compared to of a level universally recognized and technically verified as superior, like the Kef R3.
Personal tastes are beyond dispute and there is nothing wrong if you like something that doesn't measure perfectly, just don't make the mistake of believing that the fact that you like it means that the measurements suck or are wrong.

 

[beagleman]

Your approach to the issue is incorrect. What you feel is that these two reviews are somehow at odds, the reality is that they are simply saying two different things.
Guttemberg (if intellectually honest) talks about his subjective experience with these speakers. Amir, on the other hand, studies them from a pure performance/engineering point of view.
Many struggle to accept that something less technically correct can be more enjoyable, for me this is not a problem. I am 100% convinced of the validity of Amir's measurements, but the rp600m were still the bookshelf speaker that I enjoyed listening to the most and that made me want to sit down and listen to music over and over again, even compared to of a level universally recognized and technically verified as superior, like the Kef R3.
Personal tastes are beyond dispute and there is nothing wrong if you like something that doesn't measure perfectly, just don't make the mistake of believing that the fact that you like it means that the measurements suck or are wrong.

I find using a "Pink Noise" signal and listening to a speaker, often gives one a baseline of what is wrong with a speaker.

Yes there can be things wrong, that often "Add" to the music or enjoyment, but I also find it varies a bit song to song and so on.
I also go back to Pink Noise, EQ for a more ideal sound and then do an A/B comparison before and after my rudimentary eq changes.

Most times, what "Appears" better, loses a good bit of its appeal when EQed to a more ideal response.
I do not expect ALL to agree with this, but I have trained myself over 30 Years of owning Parametric Eqs and usually find "accurate" wins out in the end!