GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]

[audiofooled]

And I would assume such fires burn a pure blue instead of the usual dirty yellow, orange, and red.

And it goes off rather gracefully, accompanied with a marvelous scent and a swift decay of the last note it ever played...

 

[moosso]

I appreciate you laying your your specific reasons for defending him. In response to your reasons, I would make the following comments:

Yes thanks for the professional comments.

Danny's not saying his $350 AC cord performs the same as generic cords but is built to be much sturdier. He's saying it audibly improves the sound coming out of your system, "lifting veils," improving the soundstage, and so on. An AC cord can't do that. So people can buy whatever they want, including his cable - but that's not what we're talking about here.

I think that's the wrong move Danny did.
The cable is using better material, made in USA, has stronger EMI resistance, and gorgeous appearance.
If the guy posting measurement result, just claiming the fact without notice user they're not audible, like what Topping/SMSL doing for their high end DAC then I guess it would be "allowed"?

If we weaponize the SINAD 120dB setup we can attack so many products on the market, it could eventually destory the market because there are no point (accourding to sound quality) to make new DAC, AMPs, and maybe Headphone/IEMs if we believe EQ can bring them to the Harman Sound.
I guess that's why very few manufactures are showing up here, compare to Head-Fi.
Myself only want to see more measurement result, not everyday "let's attack the snake oil salesman" show.

 

[Doodski]

Oh, after the Woolsey fire near our home, it was obvious that a lot of homes had "damage" that was not really true. A lot of "remodeling by insurance claim". We were disgusted but there was nothing we could do about it.

The huge expense of the insurance claims are simply back-expensed to the insurance purchasers. Spread the corruption around and hope everybody remains happy.

 

[Doodski]

gorgeous appearance

Rolling eyes...LoL.

 

[CtheArgie]

The huge expense of the insurance claims are simply back-expensed to the insurance purchasers. Spread the corruption around and hope everybody remains happy.

Well, we were honest. And we are still very unhappy with the morality of a lot of people.

 

[ahofer]

Oh, after the Woolsey fire near our home, it was obvious that a lot of homes had "damage" that was not really true. A lot of "remodeling by insurance claim". We were disgusted but there was nothing we could do about it.

This has been happening in Florida on a large scale. New roofs for everyone.

 

[audiofooled]

If we weaponize the SINAD 120dB setup we can attack so many products on the market, it could eventually destory the market because there are no point (accourding to sound quality) to make new DAC, AMPs, and maybe Headphone/IEMs if we believe EQ can bring them to the Harman Sound.

That's simply not the entire picture. There are still such things as features, build quality, power, efficiency, etc. Especially loudspeakers and headphones which are still to be improved by a magnitude.

There's still a market for light bulbs, in spite of the fact that they're all doing essentially the same thing.

 

[Doodski]

Well, we were honest. And we are still very unhappy with the morality of a lot of people.

I understand completely. I observed insurance fraud before and the most egregious of them was my own step-father's. He apparently had a boat 9.9HP Mercury outboard motor stolen in the 1980s and one day ~4 years later it reappeared leaning against a tree beside the tool shed from where it was stolen and this was years after the insurance company settled the claim as a theft. He never contacted the insurance company or the adjustor or the police. So he is basically guilty of insurance fraud. I had a major reduction of respect for him over that fraudulent activity. We do not get along now for other very serious reasons and I never ever forgot that incident.

 

[moosso]

That's simply not the entire picture. There are still such things as features, build quality, power, efficiency, etc. Especially loudspeakers and headphones which are still to be improved by a magnitude.

I agree with this opinion personally, however R&D needs money, it relies on people paying more for things they don't really need.
I would call it's necessary evil, we can have good products with very low cost if we let good manufacturers earn some dirty money.
For example one of Amir's recommended DAC has this on their product material, this DAC supports a proprietary format that "removes blurs" and "creates true 3D sound field" which is pretty much a fraud too.

OK I'm going to wait for more objective result and spend less time to arguing.

 

[voodooless]

I would call it's necessary evil, we can have good products with very low cost if we let good manufacturers earn some dirty money.

How is your moral compass doing these days? It’s not the “dirty” companies anyway that give us the real innovations, do they?

For example one of Amir's recommended DAC has this on their product material, this DAC supports a proprietary format that "removes blurs" and "creates true 3D sound field" which is pretty much a fraud too.
View attachment 291608
OK I'm going to wait for more objective result and spend less time to arguing.

MQA is defunct, some of the recommended DACs support it for sure. None were recommended because of it. More like despite it . And plenty of folks around here disagree with Amir on this. All water under the bridge now… it’s irrelevant and MQA got what it deserved!

 

[audiofooled]

R&D needs money, it relies on people paying more for things they don't really need.
I would call it's necessary evil, we can have good products with very low cost if we let good manufacturers earn some dirty money.

But still some invest more than that in the marketing department. Which needs to be creative enough to sell 80% of the stuff that generates only 20% of the sales...

Pareto distribution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[xaxxon]

Yes thanks for the professional comments.

I think that's the wrong move Danny did.
The cable is using better material, made in USA, has stronger EMI resistance, and gorgeous appearance.
If the guy posting measurement result, just claiming the fact without notice user they're not audible, like what Topping/SMSL doing for their high end DAC then I guess it would be "allowed"?

If we weaponize the SINAD 120dB setup we can attack so many products on the market, it could eventually destory the market because there are no point (accourding to sound quality) to make new DAC, AMPs, and maybe Headphone/IEMs if we believe EQ can bring them to the Harman Sound.
I guess that's why very few manufactures are showing up here, compare to Head-Fi.
Myself only want to see more measurement result, not everyday "let's attack the snake oil salesman" show.

> there are no point (accourding to sound quality) to make new DAC, AMPs, and maybe Headphone/IEMs

That's great. Cheap great products are the goal, not the problem.

Commoditization of tech helps everyone except those who want others to not have what they have. We should all strive to not be that person.

 

[solderdude]

Anybody explain why this happen?
Check 60Hz, 190Hz and 300Hz.
View attachment 291523

You are thinking what you see is the output of the DAC being fed mains by the cable which has the transformer placed on it.
This is NOT what the test is.
The test is the mains cable was connected in the audio path as if it were an interconnect. So NOT connected to mains.
What it shows is generic cable is picking up a little more voltage than a braided cable. Would Amir have used any other not shielded or braided/twisted cable you would have gotten similar results.

In EMC testing we would use an induction clamp or LISN to induce these calibrated levels and measure with GHz bandwidth between L, N and Ground.
Amir doesn't have those so used a transformer.

I just wondering how it would perform in a more problematic setup.

As said... this is NOT in the mains.

And what cheap cable can make AC noise less like this? (whether audible or not)

Any cable that is braided or has twisted (or Quad) configuration will be equally 'insenstitive' to picking up AND emitting magnetic fields.

 

[amirm]

Now I understand better why you couldn’t resist becoming somewhat personal..

Not the reason at all. Again, I did not become personal. I intentionally left all of his commentary out on that front. Any emotion you see in the video is based on yet another empty claim of noise and veil being removed, "my ears tell me this so it must be right," "I have done hundreds of blind tests, etc." And to some extent casting doubt on the work I did such as mispositioning null tests, etc. I would have expressed the same whether it was Danny or someone I didn't know.

 

[amirm]

The cable is using better material, made in USA, has stronger EMI resistance, and gorgeous appearance.

The so called "cable" has a thick rope in the middle and some wire wrapped around it. And then a jacket pulled over it all giving the appearance of a very thick cable. Nothing about that says it is using "better material." Better than what? An AC cable also has no need for EMI resistance. After all, your wall wiring that feeds it has none.

The cable also uses poor termination causing it to be very difficult to plug into any outlet. It requires you to force it in there, potentially causing damage to said outlet. It is also so tight that you could get marginal connection yet thinking you have it fully plugged in. This is especially so given that the outer sleeve moves forward giving false impression of how far it has been plugged in. All of this could result in improper connection to the wall socket, causing heat to develop and possibly leading to fire. These issues would have possibly been caught if the cord was submitted to a safety lab but wasn't.

So if I were you, I would not defend a product like this. It has no merit and has no reason to be on the market.

 

[amirm]

For example one of Amir's recommended DAC has this on their product material, this DAC supports a proprietary format that "removes blurs" and "creates true 3D sound field" which is pretty much a fraud too.

You say "fraud too." So you are now saying the GR Research cable is a fraud?

As explained to you, I did not test for that optional functionality, nor commented on its use. That DAC doesn't exist just for playback of MQA. Danny's AC cable however, has only one reason to exist: better sound quality. It is not like it improves your life any other way with its thick, difficult to use construction and lack of safety certification. I tested for that batter quality and such did not exist. Yet he charges more for that cable than some of the DACs you are saying are good enough. I don't know how you wake up in the morning making such comparisons....

 

[Doodski]

I don't know how you wake up in the morning

This is more the fact. How does a person with strange awkward and disjointed belief system wake up and look outward. Re: Post #129

 

[amirm]

I guess that's why very few manufactures are showing up here, compare to Head-Fi.

What? A number manufacturers show up on Head-fi because they a) sponsor the site and b) are in exchange given a playground to say whatever they want to say. It is a highly corrupt dealing. Say something against one of these companies and you will be summarily banned or sanctioned.

On our site, we have incredible list of manufacturers including many luminaries in audio science/engineering. Some are quiet and don't post. But others contribute. Again, they are not in your face because they are not given their own subforum, threads, etc. protected by the forum owner to advertise and promote stuff.

 

[amirm]

If we weaponize the SINAD 120dB setup we can attack so many products on the market, it could eventually destory the market because there are no point (accourding to sound quality) to make new DAC, AMPs, and maybe Headphone/IEMs if we believe EQ can bring them to the Harman Sound.

That's your superficial opinion. SINADs above 110 dB or so are routinely dominated by noise, not distortion. Audibility of that noise simply depends on how loud you play and how sensitive your speakers/headphones are. Research shows that for ultimate transparency, we need a dynamic range of 120 dB and that is what these products produce.

On headphones, IEMs are extremely sensitive since they are so close to your ear drum and block noise. This is why I test for output at just 50 mv. There, SNR drops to 80s or even lower if the product is not hyper low noise. That means playback at 80 dB will cause audible noise.

In addition, you lose some of this dynamic range when you deploy equalization which everyone should be. Headroom required for signal processing directly rob you of the noise floor you have as you then have to turn up the game to compensate.

You are confusing what could be good for many as what is necessary to please all. Such is not the case at all with AC cables. Everyone will have the same experience with the supplied free cable with the equipment with no need for these aftermarket ones let alone those that cost more than the DACs you are complaining about.

 

[xaxxon]

Not to off-track the thread, but this is not true. Insurance companies are always looking for reasons not to pay. The bank will take the loss and sell the property. The homeowner will have terrible credit.

Just how many fires are started on purpose to collect insurance money? Many, and they don’t care about your bank.

That's just 100% not true. You cannot easily accidentally not get paid for homeowners insurance.

I challenge you to find a source with something to back it up that says that accidentally bringing in one wrong wire gets it invalidated.