GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]

[GabrielPhoto]

Yes thanks for the professional comments.

I think that's the wrong move Danny did.
The cable is using better material, made in USA, has stronger EMI resistance, and gorgeous appearance.
If the guy posting measurement result, just claiming the fact without notice user they're not audible, like what Topping/SMSL doing for their high end DAC then I guess it would be "allowed"?

If we weaponize the SINAD 120dB setup we can attack so many products on the market, it could eventually destory the market because there are no point (accourding to sound quality) to make new DAC, AMPs, and maybe Headphone/IEMs if we believe EQ can bring them to the Harman Sound.
I guess that's why very few manufactures are showing up here, compare to Head-Fi.
Myself only want to see more measurement result, not everyday "let's attack the snake oil salesman" show.

Headfi?
They sensor anyone that questions all the BS snakeoil promos they allow there (sponsors). Of course, that kind of manufacturer is going to show up there because that is where they can spread their gospel of nonsense.

 

[diddley]

Noice interference slide would make a nice postcard.
Thank you Amir for clarifying.

 

[YSC]

I disagree. Arguing over interpretations of religious texts or the consequences of political/social policies (with few studies) or the merits of personal adornments might be tribalism as you seem to be using it in the modern sense. Arguing about factual matters is quite different. It serves a very useful agenda: reducing the disinformation and mystery surrounding products and technologies as well as increasing general knowledge. Insofar as Amir focuses on the facts and the measurable outcomes I think it ultimately reduces tribalism by limiting the expansiveness of the belief framework that audiophiles use to justify their fringe pursuit.

and also if Amirm decided to go silent after his "response", he could just promote as Amirm getting busted by the "facts" he suggests...

 

[moosso]

This is more the fact. How does a person with strange awkward and disjointed belief system wake up and look outward. Re: Post #129

This is Audio Science Review forum right? Don't making it personal, please.
You can disagree with my opinion, calling people have different opinion with "strange awkward and disjointed belief system" is no more than disgracing this place and make them join the anti ASR club.
As I saw on Head-Fi and SB█F and some other forums, they believe measurements matter but they are antagonistic about ASR, even boycott brands that might be sponsor of ASR, it could be avoid if we handle situlations more cautiously and professional.

You are confusing what could be good for many as what is necessary to please all. Such is not the case at all with AC cables. Everyone will have the same experience with the supplied free cable with the equipment with no need for these aftermarket ones let alone those that cost more than the DACs you are complaining about.

I'm appreciate you and solderdude explain the why, now I agree we don't need better AC cables even they could have better measurement results under certain circumstances. Thank you.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

This is Audio Science Review forum right? Don't making it personal, please.
You can disagree with my opinion, calling people have different opinion with "strange awkward and disjointed belief system" is no more than disgracing this place and make them join the anti ASR club.
As I saw on Head-Fi and SB█F and some other forums, they believe measurements matter but they are antagonistic about ASR, even boycott brands that might be sponsor of ASR, it could be avoid if we handle situlations more cautiously and professional.

I'm appreciate you and solderdude explain the why, now I agree we don't need better AC cables even they could have better measurement results under certain circumstances. Thank you.

There are no brands „sponsored“ by ASR, nor ads, nor YouTube monetizing (as opposed to the sources you keep quoting) …. That‘s why anyone who wants can donate a small amount or not.

So how did you come up with that claim?

 

[Chrispy]

Good grief, Head fi and SBAF as guiding lights? Circle jerks perhaps.

 

[moosso]

So how did you come up with that claim?

There is a rumor people talking about. I don't know it's safe to post the link or even spell the name of that place.
It's related to topping L30 exploding.
Suspicions growing when Amir recommending these

• DAC measures much more worse when feeding the left and right channel different signal
• DAC randomly went to MAX volume that could blow speakers
• AMP that explode itself and headphone drivers
• AMP that suddenly died with -5 error
• PREAMP that give you popping noise

While brands like schiit doesn't get such high tolerance.
Anyway I DO NOT believe this rumor and I DO NOT encourge anyone believe it.

Good grief, Head fi and SBAF as guiding lights? Circle jerks perhaps.

Those communities have much more people and much more money.
I have friends irl that also like messing with audio equipments, I mostly won't argue with them when they spend more for things that should not audible, if it's objevtively fine with affordable price, and it can make guys feel better I'm ok with it.
I don't want to act like nuts, make them unhappy when they can enjoy the music and conversation without worring numbers.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

There is a rumor people talking about. I don't know it's safe to post the link or even spell the name of that place.
It's related to topping L30 exploding.
Suspicions growing when Amir recommending these

• DAC measures much more worse when feeding the left and right channel different signal
• DAC randomly went to MAX volume that could blow speakers
• AMP that explode itself and headphone drivers
• AMP that suddenly died with -5 error
• PREAMP that give you popping noise

While brands like schiit doesn't get such high tolerance.
Anyway I DO NOT believe this rumor and I DO NOT encourge anyone believe it.

Those communities have much more people and much more money.
I have friends irl that also like messing with audio equipments, I mostly won't argue with them when they spend more for things that should not audible, if it's objevtively fine with affordable price, and it can make guys feel better I'm ok with it.
I don't want to act like nuts, make them unhappy when they can enjoy the music and conversation without worring numbers.

I give very very little about rumors, let alone repeating and quoting them (to give them even more “credit” to what they actually are).

 

[Chrispy]

Those communities have much more people and much more money.
I have friends irl that also like messing with audio equipments, I mostly won't argue with them when they spend more for things that should not audible, if it's objevtively fine with affordable price, and it can make guys feel better I'm ok with it.
I don't want to act like nuts, make them unhappy when they can enjoy the music and conversation without worring numbers.

What has that got to do with anything important?

 

[KenA]

What it all comes down to is this. A salesman has come up with a product that he wants to make money on. He’s hyped it up to the max, added some spin and some BS, and excited the target customer. I’m sure a number of them have brought it, and are very happy with it. Unfortunately this happens all the time everywhere.
Along comes Amirm and calls him out on his claims. Salesman ends up backed into a corner, like a rabid cat. What’s he gonna do? Role over and say “yeah mate, you got me, I’m a liar, my product is garbage, here’s your money back”? No, he’s going to come out spitting and fighting and telling his believers Amirm (and anyone else that’s in the way) is an idiot, a fraud, has an agenda, etc, etc.
This is a situation that cannot be won over. Let’s move on.

 

[solderdude]

There is a rumor people talking about. I don't know it's safe to post the link or even spell the name of that place.
It's related to topping L30 exploding.
Suspicions growing when Amir recommending these

• DAC measures much more worse when feeding the left and right channel different signal
• DAC randomly went to MAX volume that could blow speakers
• AMP that explode itself and headphone drivers
• AMP that suddenly died with -5 error
• PREAMP that give you popping noise

While brands like schiit doesn't get such high tolerance.
Anyway I DO NOT believe this rumor and I DO NOT encourge anyone believe it.

When a DAC measures worse in an aspect that isn't spotted with the 'standard' tests then this calls for more tests.

Not only a DAC can suddenly go to max volume but it could also be a software volume control, firmware update or 'pilot error'.
When this did not occur during any testing you simply would not know.

All amps can become defective, recommended or not does not matter. In case of the L30 this did not happen and no ESD tests were done. NO reviewer ever tests on ESD aspects nor EMC aspects. This is a totally different ball game. The sad part is that Amir gets flak for not 'spotting' it. When one does not test for this and only tests for signal fidelity and operational aspects ONLY that is tested and the tests done are all 'basic'.

The 'rumours' are just that.

All the above, however, has nothing to do with the tests on the GR cable. Danny is not as technically savid as many of his followers believe... there is that word again... belief.

 

[oscar_dziki]

I just watched Danna's clip, and I have to say that the way he used the montage of Amir's video is some next-level mainstream media/politician dishonest BS. Times when I wondered if he was just plain stupid or dishonest person are long gone.

 

[amirm]

Those communities have much more people and much more money.

They do? How do you know that? Here is how our traffic compares to SBAF:

We have more than seven (7) times more traffic than they do! They would almost be round off error compared to ours!

With head-fi, we go back and forth on who is ahead. Considering that we are much younger forum than them, our level of traffic is remarkable:

You are starting to worry me as far as your motivation with all these off-topic posts now.

 

[Guralex]

Watching a review after review with the same results I'm just wondering - do the companies like Audioquest consider their audience as THIS MUCH STUPID?
It starts to look like a cult with all those Holy Water and Magical Candles.

The best analogy for this situation is Swiss watches: they can cost any money, can be made with any level of precision.
They can be advertised from the side of their premiality, style, unique materials/leather/mechanisms, reliability and so on.
But isn't it stupid to claim, that they indicate time better than Casio for 30$?))

There would be literally nothing to talk about if all these "GR-research"-like brands just directly said "we make very beautiful cables for a lot of money from very premium grades of copper for very adult and rich men who want a bling-bling high-end without compromise." And a photo of Tom Cruise, Henry Cavill, Billy Herrington and Kim Kardashian riding into the sunset in a Rolls-Royce with a trunk full of GR-research B900 AC cables for 350 bucks.
Honest advertising, honest show-offs.

But no, these assholes are literally lying to our faces. I wonder if there are any legal ways to punish them ? ...

 

[solderdude]

I just watched Danna's clip, and I have to say that the way he used the montage of Amir's video is some next-level mainstream media/politician dishonest BS. Times when I wondered if he was just plain stupid or dishonest person are long gone.

One can be both... stupid ignorant and dishonest at the same time.

 

[TonyJZX]

but the thing is, I dont think he is ignorant.

He's on the tab... was PT Barnum ignorant? He's selective in what information he presents and he cuts excerpts out of Amir's video to that end.

 

[solderdude]

Danny is not ignorant about electronics but most certainly lacking in his electronics knowledge.

I also don't think he is dishonest, as in purposely deceiving. I think he genuinely believes in what he says to be true.
That is the ignorant part of it. He thinks he knows but doesn't about quite a few things..

Having partial knowledge and a way to vent that in an authorative manner is dangerous, as in, one is not wilfully, misinforming their audience.

 

[delta76]

The YouTube revenue to his channel that this site is generating pales in comparison to the loss of sales (profit) that Amir’s objective coverage/debunking ensures for those questioning a purchase.

YouTube is ~$1/1000 views. I doubt his coverage in this forum alone has generated him more than $10.

Besides the point, AdBlockers like uBlock Origin are free and guarantee zero revenue from YouTube views to the creator. So you can feel secure watching his videos without putting pennies in his wallet.

Danny would not be going out of his way to combat this stuff if he was not already suffering from drops in revenue due to this forums actions.

while he will not be generating money directly from us, more views to his video is benefiting him (no publicity is bad publicity in this age)

Well Amir hurt his business while the man doesn't hurt Amir's.

exactly. Amir does not have a business to be hurt - which is why he is more truth worthy than most of Youtubers. When you have conflict of interests, it's hard for you to be fair and transparent.
Amir does not hurt businesses if they don't sell by BS claims.

 

[solderdude]

Amir's name/reputation is hurt though, as well as the credibilty of 'ASR' as a website.
Amir won't feel that in his wallet though.

 

[Keith_W]

Amir's name/reputation is hurt though, as well as the credibilty of 'ASR' as a website.
Amir won't feel that in his wallet though.

I disagree. It depends on who is doing the tarnishing. If someone like Toole or Olive started taking swipes at Amir, that is what I would call damaged reputation and credibility. But a known snake oil salesman throwing mud at Amir, that does not stick.

BTW, to go back to mooso's point earlier about other communities having more members and more money, I actually agree with him on this particular point. If you look around for objective forums, you will find a small handful - ASR, Hydrogen Audio, and maybe a couple of others. But subjective forums dominate the internet. And the amount of money spent on gear is quite eye watering. I have taken flak because I own a $2000 IEM. This is peanuts compared to what some people I know have spent. I know a guy who has $2 million worth of hifi equipment, and he bought a second house just to store the equipment he is not using. I know another guy who bought a house just to convert it into multiple listening rooms ... in a rather expensive suburb. And I am sure you have heard of that Hong Kong (or was it Tokyo?) hi-fi collector who has a multi-storey building solely dedicated to keeping his collection of high end gear. Objectivists think anything that costs more than a Topping is expensive. There is a really wide disparity camps when it comes to spending.