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GaN Systems Amplifier Eval Board Measurements

pma

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Can someone please explain the sidebands around the switching frequency and its harmonics?

I tried to evoke this with another class D, but with no great success. I would suggest a possibility of aliases, which is often a pain in wideband analysis. When I reduced the measuring band below 10MHz (i.e. sampling below 20MHz), I got aliases below the carrier.

A07 carrier.png
 

Bear123

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Unfortunately I failed to mention to Amir to go ahead and test them in the 2 ohm mode (I run one of them in 2 ohm stereo for my 2 subs [each sub has dual 4 ohm voice coils & is wired as a 2 ohm unit]) and in bridged mono 4 ohm mode (as that is the way I run the other 2, one for the left channel and one for the right channel). There is no shortage of clean power in my system. Perhaps some can hear what noise there is but I cannot.
I doubt anyone could hear noise from your amps; they are definitely in the top small percentile and way above average(which I think is 78 dB) of those tested on this site. Sounds like a music only system as you are only powering L/R and subs? Bridged power must be ludicrous!
 

pozz

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I tried to evoke this with another class D, but with no great success. I would suggest a possibility of aliases, which is often a pain in wideband analysis. When I reduced the measuring band below 10MHz (i.e. sampling below 20MHz), I got aliases below the carrier.

View attachment 135570
Hm. Could it be a kind of jitter?
 

EJ3

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I doubt anyone could hear noise from your amps; they are definitely in the top small percentile and way above average(which I think is 78 dB) of those tested on this site. Sounds like a music only system as you are only powering L/R and subs? Bridged power must be ludicrous!
I would say that the 2 ohm power in stereo (for the subs) also qualifies as ludicrous. The 2200's (and their immediate successors) were conservatively rated, had lots of headroom and basically doubled in output from 8 ohms to 4 ohms (you could still run bridged at 4 ohms) and doubled in output again from 4 ohms to 2 ohms (but bridging at 2 ohms is not a viable option, doing that lets the smoke out of the NAD 2200 & the "magic" goes away).
I run my Oppo (the last UHD & DVD region free units they built) & the cable system into it, my computer from upstairs into it via APTx Bluetooth as well as Vinyl, CD (some of which is emulated bit-perfect 24 bit), RTR, Cassette & some other 24 bit stuff (yes, I know that I only have 19 bit resolution at best). So at the moment: it is a 2.2 rig. I have had it in a 5.2 rig (including things that I no longer have) back in the early 1990's-2001. Back even further I had my 2 APT/Holman preamps rigged for quadraphonic. There are likely 3 more NAD 2200's that will be added to the system in the next 2-3 years as I slowly recover from the financial hit of the recent unpleasantness involving the COVID-19. But that is still in the future planning dept. I don't expect to have that part of the system incorporated into the setup for a few years. Like the rest of my life, it's all in a state of flux. Still have to get my wife from Guam, we have a house to renovate & move into, etc, etc.
 
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YSC

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GaN fets are expensive. One GaN fet used here can buy you a chip amp with 2 BTL outputs and it will outperform this evaluation board. So...
right, that was just my wild guess, so that makes it currently only suitable for SOTA amps to knock out the extra few db performance! but personally I am pretty open and longing for the day when cost goes down and power amp performance goes like the headphone amp market producing very transparent yet cheap ones for the mass
 

AndreaT

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In my vast ignorance, these "solid state" semiconductors seem more athletic in jumping through the hoops of conduct/not conduct. As with many new technologies, it might pay to wait a few months, and watch the show before buying.
 
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Bullwinkle J Moose

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What I understand from the interview that the intellectual people podcast had with Bruno Putzeys (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ellectual-people-podcast-bruno-putzeys.24138/) is that Bruno Putzeys doesn't see much improvement for the Purifi Audio products by switching to Gallium Nitride, he states that the use of Gallium Nitride don't improve (much) the current product. He expects more from Silicon Carbide MosFets in the future, especially for high power amplification (he mentions 10kW).

So Purifi won't (probably) use GaN in their amplifiers, it will be interesting to see if other manufacturers will switch to GaN and if they can produce amplifiers with higher Sinad that can compete with Ncore and Purifi.

GaN technology is just at the beginning

Even with 10% losses being the norm today, we see massive improvements over Silicon Tech as can be seen here >

https://us.anker.com/collections/chargers/products/a2663111

In 10 years, we should have over 97% efficiency, with a 100 watt wall charger fitting entirely within a normal looking AC plug

Or, looking at it from an audio perspective, these 1st gen amps will look like stone tools compared to the 4th and 5th gen improvements in a decades time

Class A is going Bye-Bye

Yes, even for you purists!
 

levimax

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Or, looking at it from an audio perspective, these 1st gen amps will look like stone tools compared to the 4th and 5th gen improvements in a decades time
Smaller, lighter, more efficient, and cheaper is great and the technology is fascinating .... the only problem is that it won't sound any better than a good tube amp from 60 years ago... transparent audio amps are a solved problem and have been for quite some time.
 

Francis Vaughan

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transparent audio amps are a solved problem and have been for quite some time.

But only for a price. We see chipping away at some of the limiting factors for price. Efficiency gains can mean substantial improvements in packaging costs. A traditional high quality amplifier has a very significant part of its cost sitting in metal. Heatsinks, power transformer, as well as large and expensive power supply. And a large unwieldy case to hold it all. As we move to switching systems all of this vanishes. Already switching power supplies have reduced the impost of the power supply on cost size and weight. Class D has done the same for large heatsinks and issues of thermal management. There are huge cost saving already.
The counterpoint is that large amounts of metal are easy low tech answers, whereas switching systems are high tech and require an additional level of understanding. And the more stringent requirements on components adds cost. But technological advances improves all this, whereas nothing much helps the mature traditional approaches.
The driver industries for GaN (automotive probably being the biggest) will drive down GaN costs. We are far from done.
 

tomtoo

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Smaller, lighter, more efficient, and cheaper is great and the technology is fascinating .... the only problem is that it won't sound any better than a good tube amp from 60 years ago... transparent audio amps are a solved problem and have been for quite some time.

Compare a transparent 200w tube amp with a transparent 200w class d amp. Who the hell would by the tube amp?
 

levimax

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Compare a transparent 200w tube amp with a transparent 200w class d amp. Who the hell would by the tube amp?
Not me but there is still a market for tube amps of all sorts. My point was as cool as the new amp technology is it doesn't really move sound quality forward although it does make it more affordable and easier and more practical.
 

ayane

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This is one of the most interesting reviews on this forum!
 

tomtoo

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Not me but there is still a market for tube amps of all sorts. My point was as cool as the new amp technology is it doesn't really move sound quality forward although it does make it more affordable and easier and more practical.

There is always a market for nostalgie. Its a niche. I see your point, better than transparent makes no sense. But thats exactly where price, affordability, reliabylity, economy kicks in.
 
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amirm

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The Purifi 1ET400A has an efficiency > 94% and idle losses of 1.7W.
Where did that come from? Here are the specs from Purifi:

1623736928657.png


It only achieves 94% at max power into 4 ohm. At 50 watts efficiency is 85%. At lowest power levels it seems to sink below 60%. Here is the actual loss:

1623737038129.png


Again, using 4 ohm at 300 watts we are dissipating 25 watts for one channel alone. This is a lot of heat.
 

kipman725

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Worth pointing out the price floor for GaN will be much lower than si due to smaller dies to conduct the same current.
 
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boXem

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Where did that come from? Here are the specs from Purifi:

View attachment 135730

It only achieves 94% at max power into 4 ohm. At 50 watts efficiency is 85%. At lowest power levels it seems to sink below 60%. Here is the actual loss:

View attachment 135731

Again, using 4 ohm at 300 watts we are dissipating 25 watts for one channel alone. This is a lot of heat.
1.7W idle losses is from the same datasheet.

You are not comparing apple to apple.
GaN systems claims 90% efficiency at 50W in 8 Ohm. So losses are 5W.
The 1ET400A curves you showed give about 88% efficiency in the same conditions. Losses are 6W.
2.3% improvement in efficiency for a product optimized for efficiency against a product optimized for performance at the cost of BOM x10. I am not impressed.

I didn't find anything about idle losses, that are the prominent source of losses for audio amplifiers. Do you have something?

The argument of simpler engineering is only true if feedback is taken before the output filter. If you take it after the output filter (mandatory for SOTA performance), then you enter in the world of self oscillating amplifiers and all the math that go with them.

Not speaking of cost or procurement issues.
 

Francis Vaughan

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It is almost impossible to do an apples to apples comparison here. The power ratings of the Purifi and GaN amps are different, so comparing absolute numbers of watts isn't valid. Efficiency at a given lower power isn't really valid either, as again, the full power capabilities are different and they are at different points on their efficiency curves.

It also is not useful to compare efficiency percentages at these high efficiencies. It makes more sense to compare losses. A change from 88% to 90% might be 2.3% in efficiency, but it is a 20% drop in losses. Perspective matters.

Comparing losses at full power is far from the full story. Most amps never run continuous full power. It makes much more sense for actual use conditions to compare amplifiers at some sensible level driven with some reasonable representation of actual use signal. One issue is that there are other losses than switching losses. Comparing at full power tends to skew the importance of switching losses versus total system losses.
Efficiency isn't really the game anyway. Heat dissipation in real use is the important number. Efficiency just looks good on publicity material.

If GaN lives up to its hype, we might see a halving in switching losses. Other losses will probably remain the same. So how much we win in reality is hard to guess from the numbers available. But halving of losses is the best case. It is going to be continually harder and harder to make real gains.

As noted earlier, the Axgin AX5689 provides a single chip mutli-channel PWM driver solution that takes feedback from after the output filter. There is a good chance a proper implementation using that chip (not the SMSL attempt) is going to stir the pot.
 

abdo123

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The Purifi 1ET400A has an efficiency > 94% and idle losses of 1.7W.
Distortion products are below -130 dB.
With MOSFETs from the 2000's
Again, just sayin'

Even 1% increase in efficiency would be valuable once you factor things like Bluetooth speakers, TVs .etc where you're either limited by power, thermals, or foot print (or even all three).

With the EU remodeling the energy efficiency charts my LG TV (2020 model) gets a big fat D that I'm not happy about, which was 'A' in the previous chart. All of these things can be used as marketing tools.
 

JohnYang1997

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It is almost impossible to do an apples to apples comparison here. The power ratings of the Purifi and GaN amps are different, so comparing absolute numbers of watts isn't valid. Efficiency at a given lower power isn't really valid either, as again, the full power capabilities are different and they are at different points on their efficiency curves.

It also is not useful to compare efficiency percentages at these high efficiencies. It makes more sense to compare losses. A change from 88% to 90% might be 2.3% in efficiency, but it is a 20% drop in losses. Perspective matters.

Comparing losses at full power is far from the full story. Most amps never run continuous full power. It makes much more sense for actual use conditions to compare amplifiers at some sensible level driven with some reasonable representation of actual use signal. One issue is that there are other losses than switching losses. Comparing at full power tends to skew the importance of switching losses versus total system losses.
Efficiency isn't really the game anyway. Heat dissipation in real use is the important number. Efficiency just looks good on publicity material.

If GaN lives up to its hype, we might see a halving in switching losses. Other losses will probably remain the same. So how much we win in reality is hard to guess from the numbers available. But halving of losses is the best case. It is going to be continually harder and harder to make real gains.

As noted earlier, the Axgin AX5689 provides a single chip mutli-channel PWM driver solution that takes feedback from after the output filter. There is a good chance a proper implementation using that chip (not the SMSL attempt) is going to stir the pot.
I don't think AX5689 is magical. It has its own noise + distortion. That avoids pushing it further.
 
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