Fun with vinyl measurements

[Balle Clorin]

I got 3 official Michell belts . Only the 15 year old one is good. I think the motor control have very little positive effect if any . I tried the standard PSU also but saw no difference in speed stability , but HR gives a more user friendly speed adjustment , the standard PSU was too fast in my Gyro an also too fast on the Technodec. Probably deliberate since thing slow down with use…and faster is supposed to sound better than too slow

 

[watchnerd]

I got 3 official Michell belts . Only the 15 year old one is good.

If not a sampling fluke, that's pathetic.

It's not like 15 year old Michell belts are readily available.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Yes very hard to source good belts , you can try to boil a belt for 10min. Let it dry and apply some talcum ( shake belt and talc in a plastic bag) . He Talc trick is from Michell and does help, just let the excess talk off and spin the turntable a while and brush off any excess talk from groove and pulley. Also adjusting the motor position to tension the belt more or less makes a difference

 

[DSJR]

Have you asked Michell Engineering what's wrong here? They're generally very friendly and it's not as if parts are silly-expensive despite the gorgeous finish of many of them... They did have wow issues in the 80's Gyrodek, but went to a twin belt option which cured it and later again, back to a single belt. Maybe different motor types caused this need, I don't know.

 

[watchnerd]

Have you asked Michell Engineering what's wrong here? They're generally very friendly and it's not as if parts are silly-expensive despite the gorgeous finish of many of them... They did have wow issues in the 80's Gyrodek, but went to a twin belt option which cured it and later again, back to a single belt. Maybe different motor types caused this need, I don't know.

Mine is performing within spec, so nothing is "wrong", from Michell's POV.

 

[watchnerd]

Yes very hard to source good belts , you can try to boil a belt for 10min. Let it dry and apply some talcum ( shake belt and talc in a plastic bag) . He Talc trick is from Michell and does help, just let the excess talk off and spin the turntable a while and brush off any excess talk from groove and pulley. Also adjusting the motor position to tension the belt more or less makes a difference

I'm not going to do the talc thing and risk getting talc on my records.

The reality is that there is a fair amount of measurement masturbation around TT w&f, given how many off center disks there are, which will swamp even the w&f on a Technics.

If I want precision analog, that's what my reel to reel is for.

 

[DSJR]

The Gyrodek always sounded a bit 'swimmy' to me, new and old, which seems 'cured' in the Orbe (I serviced a twin belt Gyrodek/SME V/Lyra Delos? last year and it certainly had a charming 'organic' nature to it. An LP12 also has wow which you don't hear at all until comparing with a good idler model or a master grade /digital source. The memory of that comparison has stuck with me I have to say - and although I can hold a tune, I'm no way pitch-perfect.

 

[JP]

The reality is that there is a fair amount of measurement masturbation around TT w&f, given how many off center disks there are, which will swamp even the w&f on a Technics.

It’s nice to not have to compound the issue. Though if I’m feeling particularly obsessive I’ll fire up the Nak.

 

[Balle Clorin]

The Gyro in running faster today... God knows why. Anyway the Shaknspin plots are interesting and a good guide to readjust the speed ( With the needle in the groove the speed drops 0.04 RPM)
Each line in the plot is 1/2 revolution(0.9sec)

 

[levimax]

If I want precision analog, that's what my reel to reel is for.

Technics DD have less wow and flutter than a reel to reel yea I know off center and everything.

One question I do have though is what if any advantages are there to belt drive TT's? I have only had DD and they have been trouble free and easy and work for multiple decades with virtually no maintenance so I don't understand belt drives at all.

 

[watchnerd]

Technics DD have less wow and flutter than a reel to reel yea I know off center and everything.

I'll put the average real-world reel to reel tape, properly aligned, vs a typical off center real world 33 RPM any day.

45 rpm 12" gets closer, at least the ones I have -- 45 rpm measures lower, and the records seem, on average, to be more centered.

 

[watchnerd]

It’s nice to not have to compound the issue. Though if I’m feeling particularly obsessive I’ll fire up the Nak.

Where in the world did you find an operational centering Nak TT?

 

[watchnerd]

The Gyrodek always sounded a bit 'swimmy' to me, new and old, which seems 'cured' in the Orbe (I serviced a twin belt Gyrodek/SME V/Lyra Delos? last year and it certainly had a charming 'organic' nature to it. An LP12 also has wow which you don't hear at all until comparing with a good idler model or a master grade /digital source. The memory of that comparison has stuck with me I have to say - and although I can hold a tune, I'm no way pitch-perfect.

I've heard the Gyro SE described as "lush".

I pretty much agree with that.

 

[watchnerd]

The Gyro in running faster today... God knows why. Anyway the Shaknspin plots are interesting and a good guide to readjust the speed ( With the needle in the groove the speed drops 0.04 RPM)
Each line in the plot is 1/2 revolution(0.9sec)

View attachment 153555

Do you test and tweak the speed each day?

 

[watchnerd]

Technics DD have less wow and flutter than a reel to reel yea I know off center and everything.

One question I do have though is what if any advantages are there to belt drive TT's? I have only had DD and they have been trouble free and easy and work for multiple decades with virtually no maintenance so I don't understand belt drives at all.

Aesthetics?

If you want a 'skeletal' look.

I really do love the looks of my Gyro as an art object.

Brit press sometimes claim suspended belt decks have more "PRAT", whatever that's supposed to mean.

 

[JP]

Where in the world did you find an operational centering Nak TT?

15 minute walk from my apartment to k town when we had a place in Manhattan. TX-1000 in the box.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Do you test and tweak the speed each day?

Now I got the Shaknspin is is very easy to I test it every day I play , I do not adjust it unless it has become consistently high or low. ( anything less than 0.2I ignore) After a few minutes or starts it may come back to normal speed: If it is wall Volts, humidity , temperature or anything with the belt or something I do not know . Dusting off the record with rotating disk can cause slippage on the belt that takes time to recover from, so I dust by hand on a stationary LP. I think I run with minimal belt tension on this old belt that may be one cause

 

[Balle Clorin]

Aesthetics?

If you want a 'skeletal' look.

I really do love the looks of my Gyro as an art object.

Brit press sometimes claim suspended belt decks have more "PRAT", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Yes look do count…

or

 

[DSJR]

Aesthetics?

If you want a 'skeletal' look.

I really do love the looks of my Gyro as an art object.

Brit press sometimes claim suspended belt decks have more "PRAT", whatever that's supposed to mean.

I think you can blame Martin Colloms for that term. Naim amps used to have it - all the higher order, IM and crossover distortion coupled with bandwidth limiting and unshielded pre-supply-power interconnects reducing the stereo separation figures to poor levels up top, which kind of gave a 'percussive kick' to the mid bass and upper mids. Our 80's domestic stereo's of the time were more like domesticated PA systems, what with the music we played back then in our relative youth. Not sure 'we' ever put it down to the suspended decks, as I remember the Linn-Naim-UK-popular ones (first gen Heybrook TT2, Systemdek IIX, Manticore Mantra, all playing second fiddle to the Glasgow made Thorens TD150 based model ) tended to have an equally turgid but 'tuneful' bass and coloured tone. Neutral springy-decks like the AR Legend, Pink triangle, Voyd and so on were sniffed at back then. I then discovered Notts Analogue, a tiny concern but one making solid plinth designs which removed most LP colourations as much as the ****** black plastic would allow and all these springy affairs faded into obscurity for me back then. Notts decks are better finished than they used to be but still not up to the lavish oil-rig confections of today, so unfairly ignored I feel.

In fairness, the LP12 deck is significantly better sonically today, but costs are mad and updates cost a bomb. Got to say the Gyro makes for a wonderful looking thing even when not in use, seems to last well without tarnishing and the company has been fair up to now with parts prices and so on I think.

 

[Prep74]

I'm interested in how a laser record player measures. I owned a Lineal in the last century and it certainly performed better than my stylus record players with scratched or worn records, particularly 78s but the sound quality didn't scale with price.