Phonograph Stylus Wear Experiment

[JP]

Did you ever try alkaline water (pH 10)?

No. I did the basic formula from Neil's document, and for the dirtier ones his manual method with tergitol, liquinox, and citranox. Before that I used a vacuum RCM with various commercial formula.

 

[Thomas_A]

try winyl pro clean? seem very good.... for many...

I will just test two procedures;
5 min demineralised water/detergent vs.
5 min alkaline water/detergent followed by a 2 min rinse with demineralised water/detergent

 

[dlaloum]

I recall anecdotal claims in some of the audiophile mags that Stylast was actually harmful to some cartridges. The claim was that the active chemical in it or the carrier medium would migrate up the cantilever shaft into the suspension materials and damage them (such as premature hardening or disintegration). No evidence was presented to back up the claims, only personal beliefs. I still use the LAST stylus cleaner on a regular basis since one bottle can almost be around for a lifetime because so little of it gets used per application.

The problem with treating the suspension, is that some cartridges - a minority, mostly high end - used their own special proprietary elastomers... and these respond differently to the more standard rubber/silicon concoctions.

ADC in particular experimented with a wide range of different materials, causing some batches of styli to get a reputation due to "collapsing" suspensions (the various materials were exacerbated by ultra high compliance, which was often put under dramatic pressure in the field by unsuitable high mass arms... most users arms were just not suitable for ultra high compliance styli/cartridges... add to that a problematic suspension formulation, and the result was a PR disaster)

So treating any stylus with something that may migrate to the suspension, involves risk.

Having said that - if the suspension has already degraded, there is nothing to lose... and Oil of Wintergreen can rejuvenate many standard rubbers.... (used to be used to regularly treat B52 window seals apparently!)

I was never convinced by any of the threads with regards to treatments of the stylus.... Treatments of the Vinyl record surface on the other hand, measurements were showing improvements.

 

[dlaloum]

I do, though I've not found it effective with my records. I haven't found much to effective, so I think whatever's causing noise issues with the bad examples I have appears to be rather permanent, or very stubborn.

Some of the more stubborn stuff on bad surfaces, may be grit that was on an uncleaned master - in which case it was in the pressing, and there is nothing we can do.

Having said that - in many cases, we have grit that was pressed into the surface by repeated playing without cleaning - standard cleaning won't budge these - Ultrasonic will get some of them (and if you use extended time ultrasonic, you may get more of it out).

Another approach is to use a lubricant - a cheap alternative is ArmorAll protectant - this will treat and lubricate the vinyl, it contains vinyl plasticisers, which will help with an aging surface (the plasticisers vaporise over time, making the surface harder and more subject to wear, it should have a degree of "give") - but more importantly, the treatment will over a period of time (several days at least) migrate around and under embedded grit, loosening it.

An ultrasonic clean, a week after such an armorall treatment, can in some cases release a surprising amount of grit (visible in the bottom of the ultrasonic bath!) - and the results for some bad case records, can be surprising.

P.S. if trying the Armorall treatment (or treatments such as GruvGlid) - very small amounts go a long way...

also:

P.P.S. : Last record preservative also contains lubricant, specifically Fomblin, but the amount is so small as to make the lubricating effect negligible (also negligible migrating effect to release grit) - I did look into purchasing pure fomblin, but it was just too expensive to make the exercise worthwhile, just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[dlaloum]

Let's not underestimate the impact of repeated playing without proper cleaning. Over time, dust, dirt, and other debris can become embedded in the grooves of the record, causing audible noise and even damage to the stylus. I mean even if the grit was initially present on the master, regular cleaning can still Significantly improve the sound quality of the record.

What about lubricants like ArmorAll, I know they are not specifically designed for vinyl records and contain solvents that can potentially damage the vinyl surface over time. Moreover, its lubricating properties may attract more dust and debris.
The product's primary function is to protect and preserve the vinyl surface, not to remove contaminants...

It has a side-effect of removing contaminants as it tends to "creep" around embedded contaminants (sort of like WD40... but more vinyl friendly!)

 

[Balle Clorin]

Before and after cleaning....

Distorts badly, probably used since new 1982, to 2022, but how bad does it look visually?

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

Yes, and magnets.

audiosciencereview.com

Learning to focus stack

 

[Icewater_7]

Before and after cleaning....
View attachment 331168

Distorts badly, probably used since new 1982, to 2022, but how bad does it look visually?

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

Yes, and magnets.

audiosciencereview.com

Learning to focus stack
View attachment 331165

Could you please describe the cleaning method that made such a difference?

 

[mike70]

You're destroying records with that

 

[Icewater_7]

You're destroying records with that

Is “that” Armorall? Many decades ago when playing with the LAST products I did have a thought experiment wondering if Armorall could possibly protect vinyl records if applied. I couldn’t think of a way to apply the thinnest coating and just didn’t trust the idea. Out of a gut sense of uncertainty and untrustworthiness I quickly abandoned the thought and just continued to use my VPI record cleaner with products that had multiple positive usage reviews by respected audio gear testers.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Could you please describe the cleaning method that made such a difference?

10 strokes with soft stylus brush did only remove some dandruff “. Many rounds of using and wetting it with Audio-Technica stylus cleaning fluid. The bottle had lost quite a bit of the fluid to evaporation,( put the cap on more tightly!!) but it still worked. The stylus came from a Denon 51F I bought ,and could have been unchanged for 40 years, in home if a smoker it seems, the owner died, and TT sold by the widow.. played regularly she told me.

 

[morillon]

10 strokes with soft stylus brush did only remove some dandruff “. Many rounds of using and wetting it with Audio-Technica stylus cleaning fluid. The bottle had lost quite a bit of the fluid to evaporation,( put the cap on more tightly!!) but it still worked. The stylus came from a Denon 51F I bought ,and could have been unchanged for 40 years, in home if a smoker it seems, the owner died, and TT sold by the widow.. played regularly she told me.

I have already posted it but the solution using a piece of magic eraser is probably the most effective method if you are faced with severe or stubborn clogging....
(and the community, now , have many years of hindsight on this method..15 years)

 

[Balle Clorin]

Do not know what magic eraser is or if it is sold here

https://ds-audio-w.biz/cms/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/ST-50EN.pdf

 

[morillon]

I have already posted it but the solution using a piece of magic eraser is probably the most effective method if you are faced with severe or stubborn clogging....
(and the community, now , have many years of hindsight on this method..15 years)

there is nothing simpler and more economical ( and this even on cartdriges costing several thousand euros..)
a small cube is enough (doesn't stop you from finishing with a little brush and a drop of product)
,-)

 

[Audiofire]

Do not know what magic eraser is or if it is sold here

I'd say use a lint-free microfiber cloth at least in Europe, the void spaces are an appropriate number of micrometers probably.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Does not seem like a good idea

 

[Audiofire]

Does not seem like a good idea

Not for stubborn contamination, but that is what precleaning records is for.

 

[JP]

A cloth to clean a stylus? A microfiber is going to snag it in a heart beat.

 

[Tom C]

The generic name for Magic Eraser is melamine foam. Germany is one of the places it is produced.
@JP is the person I learned from for the first time about using it to clean a stylus. It’s all I use now, and works very well.

 

[Balle Clorin]

My high end silly priced object. Works really well and fits in .Not a single shop in town had the AT version and Magic eraser unknown here too..

ST-50 Stylus cleaner - DS Audio｜Creating the future of analog music

ds-audio-w.biz

 

[morillon]

My high end silly priced object. Works really well and fits in .Not a single shop in town had the AT version and Magic eraser unknown here too..

ST-50 Stylus cleaner - DS Audio｜Creating the future of analog music

ds-audio-w.biz

it is the equivalent of this, (has existed for many years) but more chic and expensive....but always more expensive (much much much more expensive) than the magic erasers found in the drugstore section of our supermarkets
and not so performant of magic eraser
;-)