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Fun with vinyl measurements

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Balle Clorin

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Played with levelling of feet and springs and groove on platter I’m my Michell gyro. I almost got back to the lowest peak wow I once had (0.05% on iPhone app)

old best result :

DAAC2D73-8EE1-43B8-87FA-9FDE5AFD6865.png

different adjustments
A6CB5C48-A8F7-422A-B595-423BF5F1E0E8.jpeg

Present state
E84362B8-D844-4863-B7E4-9D0D59127BEA.png
 

watchnerd

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Played with levelling of feet and springs and groove on platter I’m my Michell gyro. I almost got back to the lowest peak wow I once had (0.05% on iPhone app)

old best result :

View attachment 152814
different adjustments
View attachment 152815
Present state
View attachment 152816

That's pretty nuts.

In the RPM app worldwide database (different app) there are no Gyro results with W&F under .10%.

The best I've ever achieved is about .15%.

My usual average is about .20%, even with the HR PSU.

I'm just not obsessed enough to bother to get W&F super low because I know that even mildly off center records will be much much much worse.

I also don't trust phone apps that much...I can get pretty different W&F results just from minor differences in phone placement.
 
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Balle Clorin

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the phone app and shaknspin are quite consistent on peak wow and test record also( Test record TRS1007 ang W&F software WFGUI)
Everything is relative I guess so if I can get the variations down and then use HR supply to set correct speed I am happy-

I use a light puck to put the phone on to have it over center of the spindle, so the phone in in center, Shaknspin also

I am waiting for the Iphone app to plot curves form Shaknspin. I believe Shaknspin should be the most accurate method, removing testrecords and eccentricity form the equation. The most confusing is the terms and definitions. The phone app shown the peak deviation and call it wow&flutter which it is not. Shakenspin calculate many parameters.The best thing is actually to look at the curves

I also started with 0.2% peak Wow& flutter, but spending a lot of time experimenting brought it down. Also without a good belt low values are not possible, I use a 15 year old belt, all new belts give worse results. A non-Michell Nitrile belt gave me 0.8%!!
1631431446036.png



Another days data , cannot be compared with above. Test record with eccentricity. demodulated woe&flutter in Audacity, not sure how to interpret scale

1631432342679.png
 

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watchnerd

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the phone app and shaknspin are quite consistent on peak wow and test record also( Test record TRS1007 ang W&F software WFGUI)
Everything is relative I guess so if I can get the variations down and then use HR supply to set correct speed I am happy-

I use a light puck to put the phone on to have it over center of the spindle, so the phone in in center, Shaknspin also

I am waiting for the Iphone app to plot curves form Shaknspin. I believe Shaknspin should be the most accurate method, removing testrecords and eccentricity form the equation. The most confusing is the terms and definitions. The phone app shown the peak deviation and call it wow&flutter which it is not. Shakenspin calculate many parameters.The best thing is actually to look at the curves

I also started with 0.2% peak Wow& flutter, but spending a lot of time experimenting brought it down. Also without a good belt low values are not possible, I use a 15 year old belt, all new belts give worse results. A non-Michell Nitrile belt gave me 0.8%!!

I don't find the accelerometer based apps consistent at all.

I can have a slight variance in where I place the phone and have the reading change by +/- .05% from one run to the next.
 
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Balle Clorin

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Consistent with what?. The least consistent thing here is your turntable, unless you have a Technics direct drive ;)
1631539618663.png



Yes phone need to be placed consistently to give reproducible results- . I get quite consistent results on both phone and shakenspin. for example 5 consecutive runs within 0.01% difference.
But turntable drift, and is not a stable reference either, unless you have a Technics 1200

By the way your turntable may be shifting 0.05% (not the gyrosensor) if the belt is not good or turntable has a bad day


1631540287843.png



Some plot from when my turntable was in good shape last year
My Gyro SE Speed variation with Elison test record and WFGUI 1 second sampling of Hz,( too low sampling rate to catch changes below 2 sec interval), but gives a clue. You may interpret the slow variations in amplitude as aliasing I think
1631540627363.png



1631541187427.png
 
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watchnerd

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Consistent with what?. The least consistent thing here is your turntable, unless you have a Technics direct drive ;)



Yes phone need to be placed consistently to give reproducible results- . I get quite consistent results on both phone and shakenspin. for example 5 consecutive runs within 0.01% difference.

Consistent with itself as a measuring device from one run to the next.

In contrast, if I use a 3150 Hz test tone from a good test record as a w&f measurement, I get more consistency.
 

watchnerd

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SP-10MK3 or SP-10R.

Ah, okay.

I keep hemming and hawing about whether I should pony up for a SL-1000R. Or a vintage SP-10.

Realistically, a SL-1200G dimensions and weight would fit my space better, but I want to use my SME M2-9R. Plus I'm not a huge fan of the looks.

I like the looks of the SL-1000 and the ability to use extra / different arms, but the 40 kg weight would probably flatten the Ikea Kallax I use.

Are the SP-10s less heavy?

I guess it depends on the plinth..
 
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JP

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Are the SP-10s less heavy?

I guess it depends on the plinth..

MK3 motor is 40lbs and MKII is 21lbs. MK3 in a B5 plinth with an arm is pushing 85lbs, though there are lighter plinths out there. At the end of the day still appreciable heavier than a 1200.

@JP Please post your Phone appresult on the Technics

These were measurements with a test record and W&F meter. I've tried the phone apps and while I can get ~fair~ repeatability I didn't see much correlation with demodulated spectrum of proper measurements.
 

watchnerd

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MK3 motor is 40lbs and MKII is 21lbs. MK3 in a B5 plinth with an arm is pushing 85lbs, though there are lighter plinths out there. At the end of the day still appreciable heavier than a 1200.

It sounds like the vintage SP-10s are about the same weight is the current production SL-1000 = 88 lbs
 

JP

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MK3 is yes. A bit over 1/4 of the weight is platter and 1/2 is plinth. The R most of the weight is plinth.
 
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Balle Clorin

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The Shaknspin RPM sensor now has an iPhone app for presenting and exporting data..

As you can see I do not have a Technics...but a classic suspended belt drive

1631653862927.png
but



1631653790512.png
 

watchnerd

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The Shaknspin RPM sensor now has an iPhone app for presenting and exporting data..

As you can see I do not have a Technics...but a classic suspended belt drive

View attachment 153378but



View attachment 153377

Every time I get my Michell dialed in to 33.33, the next day its different (i.e. like 33.28 or 33.41).

I have the pricey HR PSU, but to be honest, I had more consistent results with the Project Speed Box belt drive I upgraded from.
 

dennis h

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Every time I get my Michell dialed in to 33.33, the next day its different (i.e. like 33.28 or 33.41).

I have the pricey HR PSU, but to be honest, I had more consistent results with the Project Speed Box belt drive I upgraded from.

Same belt for both systems ?
 
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Balle Clorin

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Every time I get my Michell dialed in to 33.33, the next day its different (i.e. like 33.28 or 33.41).

I have the pricey HR PSU, but to be honest, I had more consistent results with the Project Speed Box belt drive I upgraded from.
That is life with a suspendert bent drive. Especially if the belt is not optimal. I also get more variations day to day with some of my other belts. The Michell Tecnodec I Measured was more consistent than the Gyro but I did not check day to day variations. DC motors also drift more on than AC that Project uses. Looking at the HifiNews lab test Projects turntable systems are among the better , and AC drive I believe

Michal say 0.2 peak wow and flutter is the spec on the Gyro . The same limit is given for the top Rega deck. See Fremers YouTube Analogplanet visit to Rega episode 4 I think for the speed check.

For an objectivist a Tehnics is an obvious choice but I love the beauty and the feel of my black Gyro . If I want accuracy I can play something from Tidal or hard disk , But both sound fine strangely , sometimes vinyl is far better like Cohen: I am your man LP is much better than the CD on Tidal
From about 8 minutes

169EC2E4-1AA7-4BE3-8551-0C50EEC36073.png

1E80B0A6-B57E-4034-971F-3872432BE265.png
 

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watchnerd

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Especially if the belt is not optimal. I also get more variations day to day with some of my other belts. The Michell Tecnodec I Measured was more consistent than the Gyro but I did not check day to day variations. DC motors also drift more on than AC that Project uses. Looking at the HifiNews lab test Projects turntable systems are among the better , and AC drive I believe

1. The belt is a Michell official belt

2. The Pro Ject I have is an older model, where the Speed Box is an outboard device
 
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