• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Emotiva XMC-2 Review (AV Processor)

tparm

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
261
Likes
156
What Lonnie should really do is go to Best Buy, pick up an AVR X8500H, throw it into preamp mode and test. Then his engineers have something to compare against at -20 and 0. Automotive manufacturers buy competitor cars all the time to disasssemble and reverse engineer. As CTO, he has a team under him to do the actual work, so he may not be directly involved…

Because what I want is a AVP-8500 from a company like Emotiva. Without all 11 channels of amplification, it should be cheaper…
And he would find his products sound better than the Denon.
 

tparm

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
261
Likes
156
Right choice is the Monoprice HTP-1, using 2.7V output SINAD is around 102dB.
As long as said client doesn’t care about 2CH analog playback.
 

Lsc

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
98
Likes
66
And he would find his products sound better than the Denon.
I may go to Best Buy this weekend and get the model below 8500 that still is miles better than the XMC2 according to ASR and do a quick comparison. I of course will add room correction to my listening.
 

wseroyer

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Messages
65
Likes
39
I've been waiting for years for an acceptable 16ch processor (SINAD > 100 db) to upgrade my current 13 channel system. The longer I wait, the less interested I get in upgrading because as of right now everything just works. The last couple of years has taught me that having a system that I can enjoy, instead of dealing with buggy software, is definitely worth the loss of a couple of channels.

PS: Sorry to the moderator if this post is considered off topic.

That's good advice, Ive heard a lot of people talking about the JBL sdp-55, but who knows, I don't think anyone has measured one yet.
 

wseroyer

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Messages
65
Likes
39
Right choice is the Monoprice HTP-1, using 2.7V output SINAD is around 102dB.
I thought Amir gave that thing a bad review, I remember seeing other reviews of it where people said it was also a buggy mess.
 

peng

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
2,084
Likes
1,649
And he would find his products sound better than the Denon.

I bet that won't be the case if done in DBT, or even SBT, direct/pure direct mode with no DSP, no REQ obviously. If done sighted then I bet you will be absolutely right.:D
 

Loron

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
26
Likes
18
Why do I need more credibility? They post SINAD measurements that match mine. Why is this still a question???

In the last go around, they called my testing in question only to find out it was a bug in their firmware. I worked with them, retested and showed improvement. I shouldn't need to do more to build up my credibility. They need to step and post full set of measurements for all their products. Ask them to do this if credibility is a factor for you.

I never doubt your credibility. i should have said it differently. It would have somehow put them in the hot seat And for e them to reply. They didn’t complain about the SINAD forthe RMC-1 measurements with the newer firmware…. Lol.

I just upgraded my account. I visit your site everyday waiting for new reviews! You are not in a conflict of interest like the manufacturer is.
it is what it is. I wish there was better communication. If I was a manufacturer I would send you everything I make because ASR is considered the only unbiased reviewer. You changed the game. Even other websites now start to do more serious measurements to accompany their reviews.
thank you
 

GXAlan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
700
Likes
934
And he would find his products sound better than the Denon.

I don't doubt that possibility, but it would be good to know *why*.

I am a pretty big subjectivist.

It is LESS important to me what something measures anechoic in mono than what it sounds like in my home, since admittedly, that's how I experience it. But I'm also a scientist. The measurements are never wrong. It's important to have controlled experiments, blinded studies including ABX testing is critical.

If you have infinite money, go for anything and everything. But whether you are building a $500, $5,000, or $500,000 setup, there is always a budget. I can ABX with ease different speakers, I can ABX with ease different amplifiers if my test is listening for hiss next to the tweeter. In the first, it has direct impact on sound. In the second, I may not hear hiss at the listening position for most days, but I can "imagine" a scenario where everything else is quiet and at the very least, I can abx it up close.

I have listened to McIntosh tubes which I like and can ABX against solid state. Nelson Pass has gone on record to say that instead of transparency, he adds intentional distortion in a careful balance that in his own words, seems to sell well and has given him a pleasant quality of life and steady income. He is precise in saying that the best sound is what the customer wants.

The trick is coming to terms of what I like and how it measures.

Nelson Pass says that "it seems like I sell more products when I don't go for accuracy." He isn't shy about that.
Emotiva isn't saying that. I also think it's wrong to say that "everyone listens at -20 dB"

If they want to say that we have bought a Denon into our labs and we can show it measures better. But then we did a blind ABX test and our engineers consistently pick the Emotiva for sound quality, or we did a Denon+Audyssey vs. Emotiva+Dirac comparison and did blind testing and engineers consistently pick Emotiva, there's something worthwhile.

There is value in Made in the USA. That is one of reasons I think a lot of US-based audiophiles are rooting for them...
 

tparm

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
261
Likes
156
I bet that won't be the case if done in DBT, or even SBT, direct/pure direct mode with no DSP, no REQ obviously. If done sighted then I bet you will be absolutely right.:D
Point taken. But, in my room that has been my experience.
 

Robh3606

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2016
Messages
84
Likes
80
I just read the text where the unit would not output video and there was a long delay on reactions to selections. I had the same issue on mine and returned it for in warranty repair. It had a bad board "Replaced EDA-2 board " and the unit has been fine ever since. The unit tested was obviously broke.

Rob :)
 

muslhead

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
823
Likes
664
I just read the text where the unit would not output video and there was a long delay on reactions to selections. I had the same issue on mine and returned it for in warranty repair. It had a bad board "Replaced EDA-2 board " and the unit has been fine ever since. The unit tested was obviously broke.

Rob :)
not obviously. i had the same problems and they did not replace my eda-02 board when mine was sent in for repair
 

Goodfellas27

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
16
Likes
3
Let us know how it goes

I may go to Best Buy this weekend and get the model below 8500 that still is miles better than the XMC2 according to ASR and do a quick comparison. I of course will add room correction to my listening.
 

Zooqu1ko

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
71
Likes
44
not obviously. i had the same problems and they did not replace my eda-02 board when mine was sent in for repair
Did they fix the problem even without replacing that board, or does your XMC still show the same symptoms?
 

RichB

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
1,509
Likes
2,068
Location
Massachusetts
Here is a review of the Storm Audio:


All measurements are 0 dBFS input.

Take always:

- Audioholics is now also using SINAD (a direct nod to ASR)
- All measurements are stated to be at 0 dBFS
- AH waited to get a firmware update to boost analog mode from 100 dB to 110 dB SINAD, Gene expresses that this is expected of a SOTA processor.
- SINAD measurements 91 to 97 dB SINAD from 1 volt to 9 volt output.

Storm is far more expensive than the XMC/RMC processors.
Please do not shoot the messenger but I think it is is important to understand that SINAD is gaining use as a method of expressing THD+N.
And 0 dBFS input signals are used by ASR and Audioholics for measurements.

For a business/marketing prospective, more in-depth measurements are not happening on 16+ channel processors and, fair or not, it SINAD/THD+N across a range of output voltages is measured with 0 dBFS signals.

I believe the RMC-1 was originally measured with a 0 dBFS input signal, expect the RMC-1 and XMC-2 measure the same across the front channels.
Note that the original RMC-1 measurements with in Reference Stereo mode and the XMC-2 measurements are now take in Direct mode so I would not rule out a firmware change affecting the XMC-2 results.

- Rich
 

peng

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
2,084
Likes
1,649
Here is a review of the Storm Audio:


All measurements are 0 dBFS input.

Take always:

- Audioholics is now also using SINAD (a direct nod to ASR)
- All measurements are stated to be at 0 dBFS
- AH waited to get a firmware update to boost analog mode from 100 dB to 110 dB SINAD, Gene expresses that this is expected of a SOTA processor.
- SINAD measurements 91 to 97 dB SINAD from 1 volt to 9 volt output.

Storm is far more expensive than the XMC/RMC processors.
Please do not shoot the messenger but I think it is is important to understand that SINAD is gaining use as a method of expressing THD+N.
And 0 dBFS input signals are used by ASR and Audioholics for measurements.

For a business/marketing prospective, more in-depth measurements are not happening on 16+ channel processors and, fair or not, it SINAD/THD+N across a range of output voltages is measured with 0 dBFS signals.

I believe the RMC-1 was originally measured with a 0 dBFS input signal, expect the RMC-1 and XMC-2 measure the same across the front channels.
Note that the original RMC-1 measurements with in Reference Stereo mode and the XMC-2 measurements are now take in Direct mode so I would not rule out a firmware change affecting the XMC-2 results.

- Rich

Excellent, thanks for the entertainment just in time for the weekend!

On the SINAD thing though, I think Gene just want us the readers to be able to compare his bench test results with ASR's more easily.

In reality it really makes no difference for those who always read the fine prints. That's because ASR always include SINAD and THD+N that Audioholics typically use. And Amir has mentioned many times that SINAD is just the reciprocal of THD+N so in dB form all one has to do it to add the "-" sign in front of the SINAD as they are numerical the same. 90 dB SINAD = - 90 dB THD+N.
 
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
37
Likes
43
at the price Storm audio is charging , im astounded the Gene has to give them insights on how to improve their equipment

What are the Storm engineers doing to warrant $17,000 per unit ?
 

peng

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
2,084
Likes
1,649
- AH waited to get a firmware update to boost analog mode from 100 dB to 110 dB SINAD, Gene expresses that this is expected of a SOTA processor.
- SINAD measurements 91 to 97 dB SINAD from 1 volt to 9 volt output.

- Rich

ASR got 100 dB on channel 2 for the 16 channel version so maybe it has the firmware update?
 

Robh3606

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2016
Messages
84
Likes
80
not obviously. i had the same problems and they did not replace my eda-02 board when mine was sent in for repair


Hello muslhead

What happened?? Is yours the one that was tested?? With mine I had the previous version of the software and over time I noticed that it was very sluggish and I would have video and no audio. I reloaded the software and all was good and then it happened again this time slugish no video and it was essentially bricked so off it went to service. When I was talking on the phone they said it sounded like the HDMI was the issue. Now it has the latest software and has been fine, fingers crossed, ever since. I did the XMC-1 trade in and even with the return issue I am OK when it's working I think it sounds great.

Rob :)
 

muslhead

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
823
Likes
664
Hello muslhead

What happened?? Is yours the one that was tested?? With mine I had the previous version of the software and over time I noticed that it was very sluggish and I would have video and no audio. I reloaded the software and all was good and then it happened again this time slugish no video and it was essentially bricked so off it went to service. When I was talking on the phone they said it sounded like the HDMI was the issue. Now it has the latest software and has been fine, fingers crossed, ever since. I did the XMC-1 trade in and even with the return issue I am OK when it's working I think it sounds great.

Rob :)
No, mine is not the one that was tested.
My display died and the unit would not function at all. Prior to that i had (and still do) the tremendous sluggishness changing modes or programming. When i sent it back all of that was supposed to have been fixed. The returned item worked, the display became functional but to this date, it can take 20-30sec to make changes when navigating from one point to another within the menu.
I have the latest software and it did make a minor improvement but its still a mess and frustrating to use.
Once programmed it is fine as long as you dont need to change anything.
Does it sound fine. Not with the bass boost issue. I detected something and called to see what was wrong and they told me to redo dirac. I did and not change. I did some search on the internet and found the bass boost thread on the emotiva lounge. I called support back and they he (at least the person i spoke to) nothing of which i spoke.
And in the standard emotiva style they now say they are aware of the findings and are working on it. They have no idea of if or when there will be a fix since they havent even admitted (to me at least) a problem exists.
I am glad yours is working. What works fine on mine is 2 channel, reference stereo mode only. When listening to that i am happy but i bought this as an avr and not a stereo system. if i wanted a stereo system i am confident i would not be using any made by emotiva. They dont measure well and perform up to their marketing hype ( would like to say to their specs but they conveniently dont publish any)
 
Top Bottom