New Emotiva XMC-2+ and RMC-1+: What is the difference, and what do you think?

[Fredygump]

If you are ok with eARC and your own room correction, then Nuprime-x H16-AES + 2x octo dac 8 pro will cost likely under 3.5 -4k

Ha! You proved my point. If you want to do your own DSP, you'll probably need a MiniDSP HTx, which costs ~$950 + tariffs for 8 channels of processing. If you want to add 16 channels of DSP processing, you're looking at an extra $2k +/-.

I do have a little experience with DSP processors. I have the HTx running a custom pair of 4 way speakers, and to my knowledge the HTx is the best value per channel, especially considering the excellent sound quality. Before the HTx I tried two cheaper DSP processor that were really bad...

I realize this is an international forum, so my sentiment may not be shared by all, but for a long time I have valued buying from local companies...and the distasteful politics and pseudo trade war aside, I would like to support an American company like Emotiva. If they can produce a good product at a competitive price, then I am happy to buy from them.

 

[snoman00]

Both of the Anthem pre-pros have balanced outputs, and both are less than $10K.

These are fake, or commonly referred to as pseudo-balanced. Anthem uses a single ended design, then markets this as being 'superior' (Anthem FAQ page), but marketing doesn't trump basic physics. The same single ended technology is used by pretty much every manufacture out there for consumer grade units. After Emotiva, I'm aware of 4 companies offering fully differential balanced circuitry and they cost $20k-$40k (Storm, Acurus, DataSat, Trinnov).

 

[Anton S]

These are fake, or commonly referred to as pseudo-balanced. Anthem uses a single ended design, then markets this as being 'superior' (Anthem FAQ page), but marketing doesn't trump basic physics. The same single ended technology is used by pretty much every manufacture out there for consumer grade units. After Emotiva, I'm aware of 4 companies offering fully differential balanced circuitry and they cost $20k-$40k (Storm, Acurus, DataSat, Trinnov).

Fake? According to Anthem's website:

All three pins of the XLR connection are part of the circuit, which means it's a real balanced connection. (If pin 3 is sent to ground or left open, as is sometimes the case, then an XLR jack is an adapter, not a balanced input.) The purpose of balanced connection is cancelling out certain types of interference and ground loops.

 

[darth]

Fake? According to Anthem's website:

All three pins of the XLR connection are part of the circuit, which means it's a real balanced connection. (If pin 3 is sent to ground or left open, as is sometimes the case, then an XLR jack is an adapter, not a balanced input.) The purpose of balanced connection is cancelling out certain types of interference and ground loops.

The question only states that for the amps/preamps, not sure if processors are included?

Frequently Asked Questions | Anthem®

anthemav.com

Also see the next FAQ.

Frequently Asked Questions | Anthem®

anthemav.com

AVM manual lists

Balanced XLR Pre-Amp Outputs (AVM Only) —Using External Amplifiers​

Balanced XLR connection offers the highest analog transmission quality, particularly over long cable lengths because it rejects noise and hum pickup. These outputs are provided using the conventional pin-2 positive configuration.

With the AVM models, the RCA and XLR outputs have identical signals at the same time (XLR connections are suitable for longer cables).

Anthem Manual

manuals.anthemav.com

 

[Anton S]

The question only states that for the amps/preamps, not sure if processors are included?

Frequently Asked Questions | Anthem®

anthemav.com

Also see the next FAQ.

Frequently Asked Questions | Anthem®

anthemav.com

AVM manual lists

Anthem Manual

manuals.anthemav.com

Yes, the AVM 70 and 90 outputs are balanced. This is from my AVM Manual:

XLR Balanced Outputs
XLR balanced connections offer the highest analog transmission quality, particularly over long cable runs, because they reject noise and hum. The AVM’s XLR outputs are internally wired in the conventional pin-2 positive configuration.

Also, it only makes sense that the circuit can't be balanced end-to-end when starting with single-ended analog inputs, doesn't it? The the primary reason for balanced interconnects is noise rejection over long runs anyway.

 

[Anton S]

This also from Anthem's website:

What about the whole circuit from front to back - is it fully balanced?​

No. At some point the signal must become single-ended, or interference can't be cancelled. This is better done sooner rather than later in the signal chain. The purpose of a balanced stage within a circuit is cancelling out nonlinearities arising in the circuit itself, and/or to double the signal level while cancelling out some noise. This is purely a means, not an end. We use a balanced arrangement in specific areas within a circuit where it makes a meaningful difference. Doing this to an entire piece of equipment for the sake of using the catch phrase "fully balanced" may achieve nothing but a significant increase in cost, or worse if the two halves of the circuit aren't matched well.

 

[Fredygump]

Yes, the AVM 70 and 90 outputs are balanced. This is from my AVM Manual:

XLR Balanced Outputs
XLR balanced connections offer the highest analog transmission quality, particularly over long cable runs, because they reject noise and hum. The AVM’s XLR outputs are internally wired in the conventional pin-2 positive configuration.

Also, it only makes sense that the circuit can't be balanced end-to-end when starting with single-ended analog inputs, doesn't it? The the primary reason for balanced interconnects is noise rejection over long runs anyway.

Amir did a review of the AVM90. This is what he had to say about their balanced connections:

Anthem AVM90 Processor Measurements
When products have balanced output, I usually focus on that as it usually provides better performance and of course, resilience to ground loops. Such was NOT the case here:"

Anthem AVM90 AV Processor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Anthem AVM90 home theater 15.4 channel Audio/Video Processor. It was sent to me by the company and is on sale for US $6375. As you see, the AVM90 sports a gorgeous, high contrast and large display. It is a joy to navigate this feature as it is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The SINAD was actually a little better from the unbalanced output. From the output voltage (4v), the XLR output is actually a balanced circuit, not a fake "balanced" output. But apparently their implementation of the unbalanced to balanced conversion degrades the signal slightly.

I'm not the electrical engineer, so I'm not sure if this is the "fake" balanced people talk about? I assumed the fake balanced output was using 2 of the 3 wires, at 2 volts output.

 

[Anton S]

The SINAD was actually a little better from the unbalanced output. From the output voltage (4v), the XLR output is actually a balanced circuit, not a fake "balanced" output. But apparently their implementation of the unbalanced to balanced conversion degrades the signal slightly.

I'm not the electrical engineer, so I'm not sure if this is the "fake" balanced people talk about? I assumed the fake balanced output was using 2 of the 3 wires, at 2 volts output.

Your assumption was partially correct. Unbalanced XLR connections either tie the ground and negative lines together, or they leave the ground "floating". Some "fancy" implementations provide switches that enable a user to choose between those two options.

 

[peng]

Amir did a review of the AVM90. This is what he had to say about their balanced connections:

Anthem AVM90 Processor Measurements
When products have balanced output, I usually focus on that as it usually provides better performance and of course, resilience to ground loops. Such was NOT the case here:"

Anthem AVM90 AV Processor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Anthem AVM90 home theater 15.4 channel Audio/Video Processor. It was sent to me by the company and is on sale for US $6375. As you see, the AVM90 sports a gorgeous, high contrast and large display. It is a joy to navigate this feature as it is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The SINAD was actually a little better from the unbalanced output. From the output voltage (4v), the XLR output is actually a balanced circuit, not a fake "balanced" output. But apparently their implementation of the unbalanced to balanced conversion degrades the signal slightly.

I'm not the electrical engineer, so I'm not sure if this is the "fake" balanced people talk about? I assumed the fake balanced output was using 2 of the 3 wires, at 2 volts output.

No, not fake at all. The XLR outputs implemented are balanced, by most definitions.