New Emotiva XMC-2+ and RMC-1+: What is the difference, and what do you think?

[Fredygump]

As you may be aware, Emotiva has just published product pages for their new "plus" versions of their HT processors. They have been bragging that the interface is responsive, and they seem to have all the "things" we'd expect. But details are a bit few and far between, and the launch is delayed.

Given that there are now published product pages, my first question is, what is the difference? The RMC 1+ has a panel for adding optional balanced inputs, but is that the only difference? The listings are not exactly copy and pasted, because formatting is slightly different. But otherwise they are nearly word for word. It's strange given that there is a $1,000 price difference, but same channel count, nearly the same inputs, same software features....

Truth is I am rooting for them! I feel like they are the underdogs and are due to catch a big break. But I know the previous models were a bit lackluster. So what do you think? Worth it, or wait for Amir to do his work?

(Images pulled from the new product listings posted today, but they look to be the old models? There is no "+" on the front panels! And why does the link for the RMC-1 say "copy"?)

XMC-2+ 16 Channel 9.1.6 Discrete Dolby Atmos & DTS:X Cinema Processor

The XMC-2+ is a state-of-the-art surround sound processor - designed to serve as the center of a home theater and surround sound music system.

emotiva.com

RMC-1+ 16 Channel Dolby Atmos & DTS:X Cinema Processor

The RMC-1+ is a surround sound processor - designed to serve as the nerve center of a modern home theater or surround sound music system.

emotiva.com

 

[masterhw]

link? not to be dense but I can’t seem to find the pages…

 

[GXAlan]

Emotiva Processors

The Next generation of Emotiva Processors are here. Advanced video switching capabilities, the latest immersive surround formats and true audiophile sound quality, all in one elegant package.

emotiva.com

 

[Fredygump]

link? not to be dense but I can’t seem to find the pages…

original post edited!

 

[Golfx]

As you may be aware, Emotiva has just published product pages for their new "plus" versions of their HT processors. They have been bragging that the interface is responsive, and they seem to have all the "things" we'd expect. But details are a bit few and far between, and the launch is delayed.

Given that there are now published product pages, my first question is, what is the difference? The RMC 1+ has a panel for adding optional balanced inputs, but is that the only difference? The listings are not exactly copy and pasted, because formatting is slightly different. But otherwise they are nearly word for word. It's strange given that there is a $1,000 price difference, but same channel count, nearly the same inputs, same software features....

Truth is I am rooting for them! I feel like they are the underdogs and are due to catch a big break. But I know the previous models were a bit lackluster. So what do you think? Worth it, or wait for Amir to do his work?


View attachment 416096View attachment 416097
(Images pulled from the new product listings posted today, but they look to be the old models? There is no "+" on the front panels! And why does the link for the RMC-1 say "copy"?)

XMC-2+ 16 Channel 9.1.6 Discrete Dolby Atmos & DTS:X Cinema Processor

The XMC-2+ is a state-of-the-art surround sound processor - designed to serve as the center of a home theater and surround sound music system.

emotiva.com

RMC-1+ 16 Channel Dolby Atmos & DTS:X Cinema Processor

The RMC-1+ is a surround sound processor - designed to serve as the nerve center of a modern home theater or surround sound music system.

emotiva.com

Didn’t they have a really buggy launch with poor customer service response? Past behavior is best predictor of future behavior.

 

[Fredygump]

Didn’t they have a really buggy launch with poor customer service response? Past behavior is best predictor of future behavior.

Looking at the company as a whole, I think they've done well. They have a good reputation for their amplifiers specifically. Over the years I have purchased 2 xpa amps (gen 1 and gen 3) and a DAC from them. Those products have been problem free, so no support needed.

But yes, it is true that they have struggled with the processors specifically. I've chalked it up to being an issue of biting off more than they can chew, rather than being a company that doesn't care about their customers.

So far they have promoted the new models by saying, "Look how fast it switches between inputs!" To me it sounds like they are saying, "Hey guys, we fixed it!"

Did they just fix the slow interface? Or did they also improve the SINAD and other performance metrics? That is what I want to know.

 

[Fredygump]

Is this the big difference between the two models? Or rather, is it enough of a difference to explain the price difference?

RMC-1+: AKM4490 DACs (All channels. Individual chip per output channel? Mono, balanced mode.)
AKM4490 DAC on Zone 2

XMC-2+: AKM4490 DACs (Only Left, Center, and Right. No mention of what DACs are used on the other 13 outputs.)

I'm curious if anyone is knowledgeable about these specific chips and if there is anything meaningful we can glean from this information? My brief "research" reveals a lot of people are asking for other people's opinions about these DACs. I found a data sheet for them, but I'd have to do weeks of research before I learn enough to draw a meaningful conclusion from a data sheet!

I previously started a conversation asking about what is holding HT Processors back, and everyone seemed to think that the DACs were not the problem. Does that opinion hold?

 

[Spazgadget]

My first post!

Have kept my eye on Emotiva as they mature their product line, and from what they're saying they've "learned from their mistakes" on their first lineup of processors, so I'm cautiously optimistic that this new lineup will rectify the pain points in their old lineup. Sounds like they hired an new HDMI expert, have a new HDMI board, and are working to make sure they don't repeat the growing pains of a few years ago.

Re: your question, from what we can glean from photographs and specs, it looks like these two devices are extremely similar. The XMC seems like the "little brother" to the RMC, wich a few less inputs (toslink, balanced XLR, etc) but largely the same in specs and capabilities. Seems like the RMC is just the flagship with more of everything. Am definitely keeping my eyes out for reviews when people get their hands on them. Feeling like the delay is to make sure they actually have things working before release, this time around (at least that's what I'm hoping).

 

[NicS]

As you may be aware, Emotiva has just published product pages for their new "plus" versions of their HT processors. They have been bragging that the interface is responsive, and they seem to have all the "things" we'd expect. But details are a bit few and far between, and the launch is delayed.

Given that there are now published product pages, my first question is, what is the difference? The RMC 1+ has a panel for adding optional balanced inputs, but is that the only difference? The listings are not exactly copy and pasted, because formatting is slightly different. But otherwise they are nearly word for word. It's strange given that there is a $1,000 price difference, but same channel count, nearly the same inputs, same software features....

Truth is I am rooting for them! I feel like they are the underdogs and are due to catch a big break. But I know the previous models were a bit lackluster. So what do you think? Worth it, or wait for Amir to do his work?


View attachment 416096View attachment 416097
(Images pulled from the new product listings posted today, but they look to be the old models? There is no "+" on the front panels! And why does the link for the RMC-1 say "copy"?)

XMC-2+ 16 Channel 9.1.6 Discrete Dolby Atmos & DTS:X Cinema Processor

The XMC-2+ is a state-of-the-art surround sound processor - designed to serve as the center of a home theater and surround sound music system.

emotiva.com

RMC-1+ 16 Channel Dolby Atmos & DTS:X Cinema Processor

The RMC-1+ is a surround sound processor - designed to serve as the nerve center of a modern home theater or surround sound music system.

emotiva.com

Now that these units are being made available, albeit in limited supply, I'm very curious to get Amir's take on them. I've posted as such on Emotiva's forum and was met with quite hostile response. It seems ASR is not well liked among the Emotiva faithful. The ideal of objective measurement, or at least the reality of measurements based on informed subjectivity rankles the Emotivarati quite a bit.

If anything this "plus" release corrects all the issues that plagued the previous iteration that had been promised fixes via firmware that never eventuated. Slow HDMI switching time, strange mismatching audio codecs, pops and glitches, failure to launch issues, power bleed through the ethernet port, issues with HDMI not seeing an output, lack of support for HD audio thought the USB input (including no implementation of the promised DSD support).

Like you, I support Emotiva and likely will do the upgrade. But first I'd like Amir to do an evaluation, though how we get him a "plus" model is uncertain. One concern of mine is the fall back on the aging design of the TI (formerly Burr Brown) 1795 DAC chip. Not sure if this has been updated. But considering the original choice was for an AKM chipset, the availability of those chips post the disastrous fire at AKM has likely forced Emotiva's hand to use the TI chip.

How can we get a "plus" unit to Amir so he can measure it and we can understand the following...
a) Is there an improvement in SINAD over the previous model?
b) Are the improvements limited to solving the crashing and HDMI issues alone?
c) Are the claims made by Emotiva in terms of performance at least in the same ballpark.

I have my magic wand but I think the batteries need replacing.

 

[Golfx]

Considering their previous launch problems, would good measurements make us buy or just flinch on using the buy button? I’d wait until the owners forum has a year to test them first.

 

[NicS]

Considering their previous launch problems, would good measurements make us buy or just flinch on using the buy button? I’d wait until the owners forum has a year to test them first.

I agree.

Though, from early reports from those in the first wave of purchases, the HDMI switching issue has been addressed, or at least is better.

I'd just like to know if there have been improvements in performance from a testing standpoint. This alone will not sway my position, if the results are at least on par with the previous iteration; I'll likely pay for the upgrade to address the functionality issues alone. However I'm likely not to jump in as quick if the audio performance is objectively worse, at least from a measurement perspective.

 

[ryanosaur]

Emotiva has also shown a tendency toward short product lifecycles and an inability/unwillingness to service gear that has reached end of cycle. They also made big claims about all the features of the RMC-1 yet left many promises unfulfilled.
I've seen a lot of folk jump ship on their RMC-1s for other processors. Many such owners on the Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 train, for example.

This should be a hard no for anybody that is concerned about long term support on something that should last 7-10 years if taken care of. I certainly wouldn't trust them with my money.

As a side tidbit, I was looking at buying some of there Gen2 XPA Amps. I went in a different direction after some of there tech guys couldn't answer questions about the performance of the Stereo Modules in their higher channel-count Amps. They had all kinds of info and promises about the "mono-blade" amp modules, but when it came to the 2-channel modules they got really squirrelly about answering basic questions like, "How much power can they deliver?" when combined with several other modules.

Red flags abound.

 

[Fredygump]

But first I'd like Amir to do an evaluation, though how we get him a "plus" model is uncertain. One concern of mine is the fall back on the aging design of the TI (formerly Burr Brown) 1795 DAC chip.

Well, someone has to buy one and drop ship it to Amir....when units become available to the general public. If the person is unsure about if they want to keep it or not, they have a 30 day return policy, so with a little luck Amir could test it and provide the results in time for the purchaser to decide if they want to keep it or not.

For the DAC, they are using AKM4490, not 1795. I don't know if it makes a difference. I see plenty of comments that the circuit design is more important than the chip.

the HDMI switching issue has been addressed

On Emotiva's "podcast", they commented about consulting a renowned expert on HDMI. And then they started saying stuff about how much money they're spending.

The audio performance of HT processors on the whole is not great when compared to stereo DACs, so I think it is pretty easy for Emotiva to match the competition. But I'm still hoping they can raise the bar on audio measurments in addition to fixing the HDMI.

 

[Fredygump]

For the best bang for the buck, Amir needs a sample of the XMC-2+.

The reason is that the XMC-2+ has a combination of "fully balanced" DAC circuitry using the AKM4490, as well as a bunch of channels using an undisclosed DAC chip in non-balanced configuration (i.e. stereo/ 2 channels per chip?). The "fully balanced" circuits are for left, center, and right. All the other channels are the "other" circuitry.

I think we can infer that the RMC wll have the same performance on all channels as the XMC has on L, C, R channels.