Emotiva RMC-1 AV Processor Review

[rajapruk]

We must give @amirm a finders fee, once he finds the golden child: the affordable home cinema processor that measures good, and operates without bugs.
I challenge you all to double your donations if it happens!

 

[SOWK]

Glad you guys are as amused with the poor software programing of the RMC-1 as I am.

I wish I could say what I posted was sarcasm, but those are the steps real users need to take to get it to work sometimes.

Absolutely pathetic the amount of bugs the unit has.

And now that Amrim's finding are found accurate... Welp... Good luck Emotiva.

 

[SmackDaddies]

I asked that question in post 79.

But as mentioned, he is choosing to ignore the post.

If he doesn’t have the unit anymore. So be it.
But he is adamant that it isn’t or cant not be a setup issue. But yet can’t get HDMI working....

So...

But anyway. Most of this is to blame on Emotiva anyhow for such a buggy processor.

I just want to make sure the unit was acting as it should have before the measurements where made.
If he still has the unit and follows my steps in post 79, gets the same results... then all of this is truly on Emotiva.

If a $5k device isn't plug and play, it is schiet. Updating software required to make it work? This isn't the 80's. It works or it is broken.

 

[SOWK]

If a $5k device isn't plug and play, it is schiet. Updating software required to make it work? This isn't the 80's. It works or it is broken.

Well, I wont disagree.

 

[SmackDaddies]

My first car was a 72 hornet and in the winter I had to have my brother hold a pencil in the carb to get it to start. That was a $50 car and the trunk did not open, their were holes in the floorboards and the wipers only worked when it wasn't raining. And that car worked better than the Emotive does

 

[SOWK]

@amirm

Good job on the review.

It is now up to Emotiva to do what they need to do to fix what they can.

 

[tecnogadget]

It looks like the realm of home cinema processors is full of snake oil. Mid end gear measures mediocre and high-end gear measurements disappoint.
Here is a good list of AVR's and PRE to compare with this RMC-1.

Legacy AVR that were supposed to be UBER top of the line of their era:
Yamaha DSP-AZ1 [Released: 2001]
Yamaha DSP-Z9 [Released: 2004]
Yamaha DSP-Z11 [Released: 2007]

Denon AVR-5800[Released: 2000]
Denon AVR-5803[Released: 2002]
Denon AVC-A1SRA [Released: 2004]
Denon AVR-5805 [Released: 2006]

Pioneer VSA-AX10Ai-S [Released: 2003]
Pioneer SC-LX90 [Released: 2007]

Contemporary or modern gear that theoretically is supposed to sound good...until Amirm measures them
-Yamaha CX-A5000, CX-A5100 & CX-A5200
-Arcam AVR390, AVR550, AVR850 & AV860
-Arcam AV10, AV20, AV30 & AV40
-Denon AVC-X8500H
-Onkyo PR-RZ 5100

 

[jgirado]

I already initiated a conversation with Amir to see if he want to review my Onkyo PR-RZ5100, let see what he says.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Why Lonnie can´t speak here with Amirm about the testing methods and results to clear things up? He implies something and then send likes for the Emotiva lapdogs & angry owners in the Emotiva forum who started raging to Amir and some new members talking about measurements.

Yes, the AP are standardized, but the test he is running is not a canned test. If you have ever used an AP, you know you have the ability to set up a test in anyway you want or you can choose to use a canned test.

No incompetence stated or implied. Just like a previous post I did, he simply chooses to do his test in his way. I'm not saying he is wrong, its just different.

I'm not picking a fight here, I'm simply presenting the facts.

Lonnie

 

[DonH56]

Always the implied "just the facts, but my facts are better than your facts"...

 

[Koeitje]

I already initiated a conversation with Amir to see if he want to review my Onkyo PR-RZ5100, let see what he says.

Hope you can work it out with him, lets see if that THX certification is worth anything .

 

[Dogen]

In light of what I’ve seen from the AVR reviews so far, I’m not spending too much on a new one. I’ll select on features, usability and reliability, unless there’s an awful red flag in measurements. Good enough is good enough for movies, and while I enjoy multichannel music, I’m not willing to spend many thousands to optimize it.

Great work Amir, and here’s hoping you find a reason for spending a little more for superior measurements. You’ve saved people lots of money and brought some sobriety to the pursuit of excellence in audio.

 

[RichB]

As an owner, I can say that I am disheartened though I know that what presented here is not likely audible and, in some cases, show inconsistent results from run-to-run.

For Pure Direct, there is a possible explanation. This feature has an oddity in that it has to be confirmed and I have seen cases where it did not stick.

Emotiva uses very good parts but I feel that what is measured here was not clearly not a high-priority design goal.
I am pro-measurement and expect that future products, perform better when they are scrutinized because these then become higher priority requirements. All AVR's have suffered from a lack of reviewer scrutiny and that is becoming evident in the AVR measurements.

- Rich

 

[Gedeon]

I already initiated a conversation with Amir to see if he want to review my Onkyo PR-RZ5100, let see what he says.

Could you add this info to this thread so members could know better about posible incoming reviews in a public list ?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rm-for-a-review-but-still-in-the-queue.11710/

 

[amirm]

My first car was a 72 hornet and in the winter I had to have my brother hold a pencil in the carb to get it to start. That was a $50 car and the trunk did not open, their were holes in the floorboards and the wipers only worked when it wasn't raining.

Hey, that was my first car too! I remember failing the state inspection because the stupid wipers which were vacuum operated would not run. We lived in Florida though so it would start. Until the transmission went bad. And bad again. Worst car in the world....

 

[Koloth]

May I suggest - or rather sketch the ideal of - a way forward?

Clearly Emotiva will desperately try to salvage this design, that should've been aborted long ago. Expecting them to admit to incompetence and bad performance is foolish. They would ban every single user on their forums and close down the entire site, before they would ever admit to selling a terribly-engineered POS. And their stakeholders would be right to expect this of them.

For this not to devolve into an unproductive war of two persons (Amir vs. Emotiva dude) and two boards, losing themselves in ever finer details and disagreements of proper protocols and ways of presenting graphs (which Emotive would certainly like, as obfuscating and creating uncertainty would allow them to continue business as usual), a third party is needed. Clearly this is what science demands. Amir does well to employ 'objective' testing protocols, using standardized machines outputting data that should be intersubjectively invariable, that is, data that could be reproduced even if it wasnt Amir pressing the buttons but someone else. Most of the time that will be enough to satisfy the definition of 'scientific'. However in cases of disagreement and contested findings, that assumed intersubjective invariability has to be put to the test and a different person has to push the buttons to see what's what.

So here is my suggestion:

As I understand it, Gene DellaSala, the founder and principal editor of Audioholics is both a true customer advocate with a proven track record, a learned electrical engineer with a mind for measurements, a declared opponent of snake oil and inflated manufacturer speaks and - IIRC an owner of an AP-analyzer (Edit: Apparently an "Audio Precision APx585". Is that ... good?). He's also situated somewhere in the US.

Let us send him
.... A.) an Octo-8-whatever DAC (the well measuring multi-channel one)
... B.) a non-Emotiva AVR, that has also been tested using Amirs battery of tests and shown to be (****** but) better than the RMC-1,
... and C.) either the very RMC-1 that was tested here or a new RMC-1, to be supplied by Emotiva themselves.

Then Amir will suggest two measurements to be taken and graphs to be produced and the Emotiva-designer will do the same. Finally Gene would add tests of his own that he believes to be indicative of real-world-performance.

Then let's see. (Of course, Gene would need to be interested in such an undertaking, but he'd be getting the chance of a pretty interesting write-up and if I judge him correctly, I believe he would cherish such an opportunity.)

Not only would such a procedure be an almost ideal realization of scientific ideals, it would also be VERY HARD for Emotiva to trivialize or blow off. I would be greatly amused to see them slither around on their forums and trying to find reasons why they couldnt possibly send an RMC-1 to Gene.

====================================================================

PS: I sure hope there's no long-lasting blood feud between Amir and Gene that I am utterly unaware of.

 

[RayDunzl]

intersubjectively invariable

I like it...

 

[CJ Miller]

The drama tied to this product is not dissimilar to the type of disruption rtings has done in the world of headphone reviews. People spend thousands of dollars on a product that produced no measurements before hand, and were in denial that something a 10th of the cost performs better after we get the data. Sorry folks but sometimes you bet on the wrong horse.

Amir thank you for your time.

 

[doodlebro]

Hey, that was my first car too! I remember failing the state inspection because the stupid wipers which were vacuum operated would not run. We lived in Florida though so it would start. Until the transmission went bad. And bad again. Worst car in the world....

Vacuum... Wipers?

Back on topic, this whole exchange is just gross from the Emotiva side. Both the employees and the proponents are shooting themselves in the proverbial foot.

Who wants to start an audio company?

 

[RichB]

The drama tied to this product is not dissimilar to the type of disruption rtings has done in the world of headphone reviews. People spend thousands of dollars on a product that produced no measurements before hand, and were in denial that something a 10th of the cost performs better after we get the data. Sorry folks but sometimes you bet on the wrong horse.

Amir thank you for your time.

I don't see this drama coming from users. I am one and have, thus far, not needed to breath into a paper bag

- Rich