Do USB Audio Cables Make A Difference?

[CuteStudio]

If the DAC doesn't rely on the USB power I think it should sound the same.
If not I suspect it's purely down to how clean that 5V is

 

[Aenigmatista]

I'm currently listening to music with my SXFI amp. Sometimes, at random, I can hear very tiny (static) crackling. It is difficult to describe, but I can often hear it during 'atmospheric' sounds, like the sound you hear when changing the volume in Windows on the bottom right corner of the screen.

Does anyone know how this kind of distortion is called and what this sound distortion is? Does this mean that this is one of those DACs that poorly handles input (the SXFI amp was put on the recommended list by Amir)? Can it indeed be caused by my (cheap and 1 meter long) USB-C to USB-A cable from my PC going through cable management until reaching the DAC? I don't think Amir has tested whether other electricity cables can cause any interference. Perhaps the problem is (also) caused by Windows itself?

Anyhow, I tested some stuff, even though I don't have another USB cable laying around to connect the DAC to my pc. Once I connect the DAC to my Android phone with the supplied (10 centimeter) USB-C to C cable (and USB-C to USB-B micro adapter), I do notice that there is (less/no) crackling during the same songs on spotify (played from my mobile phone). Thus, I do think that the cable itself does have somekind of influence on end sound. The next question is whether I can use a similar length higher quality cable (through my cable management setup) to get rid of the crackling (or however you guys call it).

Also, I don't hear this kind of distortion with my headphone output on the (supposedly) much lower quality Behringer UCA 222 (also tested by Amir).

EDIT:

It appears I'm getting the same kind of distortion with the SXFI amp when only using the 10 centimeter USB-C to C cable for my laptop. Thus, perhaps the problem lies with the usb ports on the PC/laptop (and the SXFI amp not being able to handle that really well).

EDIT:

I put the same long cheap USB-C to A cable in my monitor's USB port (which port functions by another upstream cable connected with the PC). I think all distortion is gone now. I actually did not expect that using an USB hub would help, but apparently it did.

 

[Katji]

? :-o Crackling? Crackling usually faulty connectors...especially TRS /headphone jacks and so on.

 

[Aenigmatista]

? :-o Crackling? Crackling usually faulty connectors...especially TRS /headphone jacks and so on.

I put the same long cheap USB-C to A cable in my monitor's USB port (which port functions by another upstream cable connected with the PC). I think all distortion/crackling is gone now. I actually did not expect that using an USB hub would help, but apparently it did.

 

[Julf]

I put the same long cheap USB-C to A cable in my monitor's USB port (which port functions by another upstream cable connected with the PC). I think all distortion/crackling is gone now. I actually did not expect that using an USB hub would help, but apparently it did.

In that case, could it be that the DAC/Amp needed more current than the port was able to supply? Is it a powered hub?

 

[Katji]

In that case, could it be that the DAC/Amp needed more current than the port was able to supply? Is it a powered hub?

I think you got it.

USB C can handle more current than previous USB...but I'm confused by the different cables and adapters. The Micro USB B, is that the phone connector?

[...] Does this mean that this is one of those DACs that poorly handles input (the SXFI amp was put on the recommended list by Amir)? Can it indeed be caused by my (cheap and 1 meter long) USB-C to USB-A cable from my PC going through cable management until reaching the DAC?

The PC is USB C ? ...cable C to A, then what is the A plugged into? The USB hub of the monitor?
Cable management...?
...because the DAC/amp is USB C.

 

[CuteStudio]

This is the PSU design I ended up with, this evening. The USB extender took ages to arrive.



Between the pins of the 7805 are two 4.7uF chip caps, and some cap on the input (470uF perhaps) and an Oscon 330uF on the output. So it should be very good.
I tested it with the meter and a lab PSU sending it 9V, on a USB lamp: all works fine, exactly 5.00V.
This is good.. as I discovered I had no 7805 so had to pull one out of an old PCB that was heading for the bin. It seems I did not cook it!

So, all good, except my wallwart I was going to use, is dead . So tomorrow I must see if I can find another one, but this time: one that actually works... then I'll risk plugging the new rig straight into my DAC... fingers crossed, I don't want to spend another £7.50 if it blows up!!

 

[Katji]

^^^
I need to go back to the beginning..[of the sub-thread] and refresh memory. :-s But it's 3:40, I was just checking the notifications before closing down. [...]

 

[CuteStudio]

Ok, I found a 7.2V linear PSU (No idea where that came from).
On the 5V I could only measure 10mV of mains ripple, so I think it's reasonable, even though the input voltage is a bit low.
To lower, cascade a 7812 into 7805 LOL

Listening: Actually my PSU with my valuable DAC (Apple USB-C) sounds fantastic in this PSU.
It may be psychological, but I cannot fault the sound. I can recommend!! Very coherent, spacious.

 

[Wes]

The Princess can detect even the tiniest noise from from peapods, no matter how many buffers of mattresses intervene.

Her sensitivity is key to the class ranking system and is a far greater signifier than any Patek, Rolex, Bentley or lampshade...

 

[Katji]

^^^ I'm doing well with the LOLZ tonight, even though my herbal vendor isn't available.

 

[Ro808]

It would be interesting to see how the Topping D10S handles different USB cable lengths.

 

[Katji]

These audiophile USB cables, people should be sent to re-education camps. [And a lot of others, too, if I was boss.]

 

[Gradius]

Uptone Audio is way too expensive ($35) for what it does (see attached).

Components:
R1: 220 Ohms (resistor)
S1: a simple SMD switcher
Q1: 5V SMD linear voltage regulator
J1 & J2: USB2 connectors

Total cost: under $5 bucks

You just don't need this at all !

Just put a small electrical tape on PIN 4 (GND) on USB cable, and that's it.

If you can, NEVER use USB (from PC) as power supply for your DAC (ground loop problems, noise, etc).

Just use a good power supply (they aren't expensive).

 

[Count Arthur]

Of course, NEVER use USB (from PC) as power supply for your DAC (ground loop problems, noise, etc).

My previous DAC was connected to a PC and powered soley via the USB input, there wasn't a separate power input, and I never had any noise issues whatsoever.

A lot must depend on a combination of how good your PC power supply is, how well the PCs onboard USB is implemented and how well the USB input on the DAC is designed to cope with noisy USB power.

 

[SIY]

My previous DAC was connected to a PC and powered soley via the USB input, there wasn't a separate power input, and I never had any noise issues whatsoever.

A lot must depend on a combination of how good your PC power supply is, how well the PCs onboard USB is implemented and how well the USB input on the DAC is designed to cope with noisy USB power.

Ditto. I have four DACs currently on hand, ranging in price from $99 to $2000. Three computers. Exactly zero issues.

 

[trl]

If you can, NEVER use USB (from PC) as power supply for your DAC (ground loop problems, noise, etc).

I do understand what you're saying and I somehow agree and understand your concern, but I thought Amir already measured several DACs in both scenarios: powered from an external USB power supply (like Schiit Wyrd or similar), powered from the built-in USB port of the PC/laptop. Although some USB ports are a bit noisy (see http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-usb-hubs-and-8khz-phy.html and http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/05/measurements-computer-usb-5v-power.html), they are still good enough to power an audio source like DAC; each DAC has a built-in regulator that gets rid of AC ripple & noise, so audibile seems that there're no problems.

 

[Count Arthur]

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/05/measurements-computer-usb-5v-power.html

In another thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ground-loop-usb-output-noise.26898/, I suggested trying the DAC connected to different ports on the same PC. I think that article nicely illustrates why that might help in some cases and that not all USB ports are created equal.

I wonder whether the front ports on a PC, that are connected to the motherboard via a separate internal cable, are always worse than those at the back that are connected directly to the motherboard. The ports at the rear are typically enclosed in a metal housing, which is presumably connected to ground to provide some shielding from electrical noise within the PC:

Are there any motherboard experts or designers that can confirm that?

 

[mansr]

I wonder whether the front ports on a PC, that are connected to the motherboard via a separate internal cable, are always worse than those at the back that are connected directly to the motherboard.

There's no such thing as always. Lots of things can influence the amount of noise on the USB power. That said, longer wiring is certainly more prone to picking up interference, so I wouldn't be surprised if things tend to be skewed in the way you suggest.

As another example, the two front USB ports on my computer are connected to a dual header on the motherboard (a "server" model, FWIW) with the cables bundled together. This is the noise on one of those ports:

This is the other one:

Rear type A port:

Rear type C port:

USB port on my keyboard:

A powered D-Link brand hub (note the change in time scale):

Clearly, any noise-sensitive device using USB power would do well to include some internal filtering.

 

[alpha_logic]

In another thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ground-loop-usb-output-noise.26898/, I suggested trying the DAC connected to different ports on the same PC. I think that article nicely illustrates why that might help in some cases and that not all USB ports are created equal.

I wonder whether the front ports on a PC, that are connected to the motherboard via a separate internal cable, are always worse than those at the back that are connected directly to the motherboard. The ports at the rear are typically enclosed in a metal housing, which is presumably connected to ground to provide some shielding from electrical noise within the PC:

View attachment 158098

Are there any motherboard experts or designers that can confirm that?

Gigabyte has the AB-350, with USB DAC-UP - in their words - with a clean, isolated power supply adding the ability to compensate for voltage drop. I don't know how it measures, but it's the only board I know of that was built with clean, isolated power for audio devices.

https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/GA-AB350-Gaming-3-rev-1x#kf