See how they don't labe there Axis or tell us any numbers... "2x less nose" then what?!
typical marketing BS.
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Do USB Audio Cables Make A Difference?
- Thread starter amirm
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typical marketing BS.
OlolOshnik
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Hi, everybody!
I have some usb-cables with tinned cooper conductors(for example, Vention cables on AliExpress) and several latched ferrite filters.
It's very interesting, how tinned copper for sound. Because of the skin effect, the transfer will take place on a layer of tin?
And if there are pros or cons of using ferrite filters on cables.
I have some usb-cables with tinned cooper conductors(for example, Vention cables on AliExpress) and several latched ferrite filters.
It's very interesting, how tinned copper for sound. Because of the skin effect, the transfer will take place on a layer of tin?
And if there are pros or cons of using ferrite filters on cables.
None of that matters at audio frequencies, but it is to protect other devices from HF radiated by high-speed digital connections.
Killingbeans
Major Contributor
USB doesn't have a sound. It's a digital transfer protocol. There's no subtle failure mode, only pops, clicks and dropouts. Nothing that can be descibed as "sound"
ClickClack
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Could anyone describe HOW there can be a difference between digital cables? Without that explanation I can't make sense of it... :-/
It would be greatly appreciated
It would be greatly appreciated
Jimster480
Major Contributor
There isn't a difference. The only way for there to be one is if one cable is so poorly made that it doesn't get constant contact. That causes disconnections and drops. Otherwise it works.
There are some times that the cable wiring is too thin and the cable is too long so not enough power can make it to the plugged in device or the signal fades out which again leads to connection/drop out problems.
Nothing that can affect audio quality because it would either be working or not working.
ClickClack
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Right but the OP has posted numerous graphs showing differences.... so what are they showing?
solderdude
Grand Contributor
They are basically showing that some (older) USB interfaces in DACs weren't well desiged and that the small differences in USB signal quality affected a specific DAC that was known to have a poor quality USB receiver.
ClickClack
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But if there can be "small differences in USB signal quality" then digital cables CAN be different, no? So how is that happening?
Yes, there are certain rare border situations with badly designed gear where the cable can make a tiny difference. Key words are "rare" and "badly designed".
ClickClack
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Yes ok so...HOW? haha, that was my question! HOW can digital cables be different? It seems to violate the principle of digital data transfer. Unless there are missing bits and no parity built into the system?
Jimster480
Major Contributor
That is basically the problem with the older modules. If there are drop outs it doesn't know because it doesn't use a modern method of connection.
Keith_W
Major Contributor
One cable is long, and the other is short. The longer the cable, the higher its resistance and susceptibility to interference. Impedance mismatches between cable and input of the DAC can cause signal to reflect. This is why there is a maximum length for high bandwidth cable like HDMI. This is also why pro audio digital cable for carrying clock signals must be exactly 75 Ohm. As I understand it, with USB this is less critical but longer cables can still have an effect. This article explains that your signal starts to degrade above 3m, and the maximum length is about 20m.
Apart from not detecting errors, some old or badly designed gear might be sensitive to ground loops/noise coming through the ground lead of the cable.
Sure, but with properly designed gear the signal still either gets there or not.
Keith_W
Major Contributor
I agree. But I am trying to answer his question. Amir's test equipment is very sensitive, it can detect low levels of interference from USB cable which is only slightly longer than the other (look at the comparison between the stub and a standard length USB cable). I am not arguing for one moment that this extremely low level of interference might be audible or cause other issues, only that it can be detected. The measured difference between those two cables is due to the length, not to any magical properties of the cables themselves.
As for "signal getting there or not", have you ever tried copying files off a portable SSD using a very long USB cable? Your transmission speed noticeably slows down. I attempted to do exactly that when I was restoring a backup recently, and the extremely slow speeds made me rummage around my cable collection to look for a shorter cable that worked. Since I only buy cheap cable, there were a surprising number of cables that were good for charging only and useless for data transmission. It took me a while to find a "good" cable. Again - not saying that this is relevant for audio, since audio is low bandwidth. But signal degradation and packet loss from long USB cables is a thing.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
It could be bandwidth, it could be reflections due to incorrect impedance matching from either the source or receiver side or the cable impedance (for longer lengths).
Because of this the 'signal fidelity' of the, in essence 'analog' nature' of the 'digital' signal can be below par which may or may not become an issue when reconstructing the digital info (jitter or bits toppling) because the receiver cannot make the correct 'heads an tails' from the incoming electrical signal.
The culprit here is not the cable as such but actually the receiver side that is not as immune as it should be for degradation of the electrical signals.
Then there is common mode issues, power/ground wiring being too high in resistance etc.
So in some cases there could be issues with one cable but not with another cable. The common audiophile 'differences' in sound quality often seem to be the same as if it were an analog transmission which cannot possibly be the same due to the nature of the signal (both are electrical voltages changing over time)
Consider coax cables in analog TV where one cable could have less noise with certain channels than others between cables. It could be that the cable had a poor impedance or it was bent once. Also with digital TV the same thing can happen. Cable one is fine, cable 2 has 'blocking' or signal loss or stuttering picture or sound.
In these cases similar issues are present in the cables but work out differently.
Then there is the transmission mode (handshake or pushing) where packets are not resent and have to rely on redundancy/error correction or loose (parts) of packages.
It is incredible that it works so well in practice with a wide range of gear and cables anyway. That's the beauty of digital transmission.
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Shielding could also be an issue, depending on your location and other products that might be emitting interference.
Bob Olhsson
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It's not about the bits. It's about the clocking and how RFI impacts the analog stages of the converter.
Quite, all you need are :-
Linear power supplies
Hugely expensive dac
Boutique ( kitchen table top) cords with ferrets on them
Exorbitant network switches all those issue will disappear,
Keith
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