Ouch that’s bad news for me. I just wanted to take advantage of the cheap DSP hardware and lossless decoders, surround processing. I would even switch off the amps and use the reference one I have. Such anemic pre out voltage makes it unsuitable for my personal needsAnyone else (with good externa amplification already) reacted to the extremely low level line outs on the models that have them, example from the RZ-50 information sheet (Integra 3.4/5.4 and Pioneer 505 are identical):
View attachment 138366
Maybe I'm missing something but 200mV RMS won't cut it with amps often having ~1.3V+ input sensitivity. Not to mention the bad SNR this gain structure invites.. What happened to the normal 2V line levels of my old gear..
Souce: https://virtualvoxx.com/premium#section_receivers
I feel you bro. Most manufacturers are missing what we really need...no surprise they have to be bought off to keep afloatI just wish they would throw out all the amplification so it can be more compact.
Even if you accept the high pricing of separate processors there is barely any choice if you want something that is compact. I don't need all those analog video inputs for example. Its sad really.I feel you bro. Most manufacturers are missing what we really need...no surprise they have to be bought off to keep afloat
I don’t know why, but the specs of my Onkyo TX-NR717 (a 2012 model) also say 200 mV for the RCA pre-outs, and this is more than enough for both of my SVS SB2000 Pro – even at the lowest level of –15 dB in the AVR’s settings.Ouch that’s bad news for me. I just wanted to take advantage of the cheap DSP hardware and lossless decoders, surround processing. I would even switch off the amps and use the reference one I have. Such anemic pre out voltage makes it unsuitable for my personal needs
Your sub has its own volume/gain setting, not all power amplifiers do.I don’t know why, but the specs of my Onkyo TX-NR717 (a 2012 model) also say 200 mV for the RCA pre-outs, and this is more than enough for both of my SVS SB2000 Pro – even at the lowest level of –15 dB in the AVR’s settings.
Anyone else (with good externa amplification already) reacted to the extremely low level line outs on the models that have them, example from the RZ-50 information sheet (Integra 3.4/5.4 and Pioneer 505 are identical):
View attachment 138366
Maybe I'm missing something but 200mV RMS won't cut it with amps often having ~1.3V+ input sensitivity. Not to mention the bad SNR this gain structure invites.. What happened to the normal 2V line levels of my old gear..
Souce: https://virtualvoxx.com/premium#section_receivers
And this setting is always at the default level of –10 dB.Your sub has its own volume/gain setting, not all power amplifiers do.
Getting two or more subs isn't a miniDSP pretty much a requirement? You also have to think about outside of these new AVR what is the entry point for Dirac Live. Maybe they will offer the DLBC upgrade in the future but for now I'm thinking no. I'm sure there are more compelling AVR with more features but these ones seem promising especially since they don't have the HDMI 2.1 bug
Also, miniDSPs don't support bass control.
I'm pretty sure the point of MiniDSP is that the user is the bass control .
What's the entry point for an AVR with 2 sub outs and DLBC? $3000? Then you still have to shell out $500 for the DLBC? I'm genuinely curiousIf you have an AVR with dirac+bass control and 2+ sub outs, then you don't need a miniDSP. Also, miniDSPs don't support bass control. If you only have 1 sub, you'd be better off putting $350 towards a second one than paying for the bass control upgrade in most cases.
I think these AVRs are fine products if you don't want bass control.
What's the entry point for an AVR with 2 sub outs and DLBC? $3000? Then you still have to shell out $500 for the DLBC? I'm genuinely curious
There is nothing below the $4K(Monoprice HTP-1)+$500 price point as far as I know. That's the entire reason I'm interested in cheaper AVRs that might get the option!
MiniDSP at higher channel counts is still very expensive(2x DDRC-8A w/BM is $2300, plus your AVR), and also includes days spent tweaking w/ 50+ REW measurements required and a cabling mess due to sending each channel through the miniDSP from your AVR first.
A DLBC AVR at $2K total would be a game changer even if it only supports 11 channels.
I agree with that. $2k is about as much as I'm willing to spend for Dirac. But let's say that Onkyo offers the $350 bass control upgrade later on. If you have a miniDSP HD for $249 you'd be able to EQ both subs so the AVR only sees 1 single sub. Would Dirac not do its magic after? It's my understanding that's how most people EQ multiple subs and then run Audyssey XT32 after.There is nothing below the $4K(Monoprice HTP-1)+$500 price point as far as I know. That's the entire reason I'm interested in cheaper AVRs that might get the option!
MiniDSP at higher channel counts is still very expensive(2x DDRC-8A w/BM is $2300, plus your AVR), and also includes days spent tweaking w/ 50+ REW measurements required and a cabling mess due to sending each channel through the miniDSP from your AVR first.
A DLBC AVR at $2K total would be a game changer even if it only supports 11 channels.
But let's say that Onkyo offers the $350 bass control upgrade later on. If you have a miniDSP HD for $249 you'd be able to EQ both subs so the AVR only sees 1 single sub.
Is it two independent sub outs?The receivers all have 2 sub outs. Why do you need a miniDSP HD?
Martin
It is, yes. But if you care about bass control bothering with a single sub seems inherently ridiculous to me.