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Dirac in the 2021 Onkyo AVRs

Vasr

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#4
Replying to my own post... Dirac would be available from the $899 receiver and up.
https://www.cnet.com/news/onkyo-and-pioneers-2021-receivers-back-in-black-with-8k-video/

I may be wrong but I don't think Dirac has ever been that affordable in a receiver. I'm salivating.
I would hold the saliva in check until it is determined whether it is a "starter" version of Dirac requiring a separate full license. On the other hand, if these are discounted heavily in the future, they might turn out to be great Dirac hardware platforms. Assuming their internal amps are satisfactory for surrounds. Only L and R out along with Subs.

However, these models are designed to compete with the lower-tier D&M and Yamaha models and so what compromises they may have made in build and component selection remains to be seen.

But if they have decided to undercut competition maintaining quality in pricing, that is a good development. I think they are smart in not chasing after gazillion channels versions to cater to the most typical installations of 7.x.x or less.

I am not sure about using the Elite branding at these tiers. It has become just a label now.
 
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#5
This picture shows that the subwoofer pre-outs on the Onkyo TX-RZ50 are not marked with numbers 1 and 2, meaning that it might be impossible to specify the distance to each of the subwoofers separately. My Onkyo TX-NR717 (2012 model) has the same problem: two pre-outs and just one menu line in OSD to specify the distance.



However, in this video, we see the interface of Dirac Live which is quite advanced, and it seems that it allows specifying the two distances individually. Let's hope for the better.

 
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Darvis

Darvis

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Thread Starter #6
However, these models are designed to compete with the lower-tier D&M and Yamaha models and so what compromises they may have made in build and component selection remains to be seen.
Indeed, there's something fishy about all this, that I chose to ignore ;) Alternatively, maybe Dirac changed its pricing strategy to be able to enter mass market?
 
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Darvis

Darvis

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Thread Starter #7
This picture shows that the subwoofer pre-outs on the Onkyo TX-RZ50 are not marked with numbers 1 and 2, meaning that it might be impossible to specify the distance to each of the subwoofers separately. My Onkyo TX-NR717 (2012 model) has the same problem: two pre-outs and just one menu line in OSD to specify the distance.



However, in this video, we see the interface of Dirac Live which is quite advanced, and it seems that it allows specifying the two distances individually. Let's hope for the better.

Yeah, so it seems we already have to add the cost of a mic upgrade to the initial price... Well, it's still cheaper than nad.
 

Vasr

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#9
Yeah, so it seems we already have to add the cost of a mic upgrade to the initial price... Well, it's still cheaper than nad.
From what I am hearing in the video, the mobile app with the puck mic is free but you have to purchase the real mic and Full Dirac Live as optional. The good news is that for NAD/Rotel/JBL, the upgrade to full version from the included Dirac LE was just $99. Have to see if the same upgrade pricing applies to Onkyo/Pioneer.
 

Vasr

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#11
I doubt UMIK-1 and Full Dirac Liven bundle would cost only $99
The mic is never included in Dirac Live purchases/upgrades from Dirac. Dirac Live Full version upgrade for the current brands that come with Dirac LE is $99

https://live.dirac.com/home-audio-2/

Dirac Live bass management upgrades are ridiculously priced even for upgrades. $350 for single sub and $500 for multisub. :rolleyes:
 
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#12
The mic is never included in Dirac Live purchases/upgrades from Dirac. Dirac Live Full version upgrade for the current brands that come with Dirac LE is $99

https://live.dirac.com/home-audio-2/

Dirac Live bass management upgrades are ridiculously priced even for upgrades. $350 for single sub and $500 for multisub. :rolleyes:
Exactly my thought. If the mic that arrives with the receiver can't be used with the full version then it's an additional $75 if you don't already have UMIK-1. And for subwoofer/bass management upgrade the price starts to skyrocket... Audyssey seems a lot more consumer friendly option.
 

Vasr

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#13
Exactly my thought. If the mic that arrives with the receiver can't be used with the full version then it's an additional $75 if you don't already have UMIK-1. And for subwoofer/bass management upgrade the price starts to skyrocket... Audyssey seems a lot more consumer friendly option.
We don't know yet how good the included mic is. Dirac does not prevent the use of any mic with or without calibration. Just recommends UMIK as the preferred mic. I have done some experiments with, for example, using ARC supplied mic with Dirac without any calibration files and haven't found any issues I can point to. So whether to upgrade the mic is a separate issue for an average consumer. The mics supplied with Audyssey aren't that great either and I don't think they are individually calibrated anyway. Since, at the minimum, Dirac LE will run on the these units with the included mic, I suspect it will be good enough for Dirac Full for most people.

To compare with Audyssey, you shouldn't factor in DLBC upgrade since the latter does stuff for cleaning up the crossover region that Audyssey does not. Whether DLBC is worth its high price of admission is a different issue though. I think it is way over-priced for what it can do and over-hyped.

The problem with full Dirac Live is that it doesn't do much with bass except treat it as another speaker to adjust levels to. It has depended on the hardware it is integrated with to do that separately and hopefully seamlessly. So with the hardware vendor's own programming to take care of the basics like distance and level, typical buyers of these units don't need DLBC.

I am not even sure most of these users need to upgrade to Dirac Live Full unless they are the tweaking type and need full control. The UI of Dirac Live for the tweaking is a frustrating mess for anybody who doesn't already understand the basic concepts of room correction. Dirac seems like it is run by a bunch of tech geeks without much product management and UX experience. This might be OK for the audience in this forum though.

So bottom line, the inclusion of Dirac (even the lite edition) is great out of the box for these low end products for typical buyers in this segment and if the integration is done well with good UX, is sufficient. This would be comparable to out of the box set up with Audyssey (without tweaking) while the results may not be as good as what you get out of ARC (without tweaking).

If one wants the full Dirac Live tweaking experience and understands a bit of the room correction principles and/or able to learn and likes looking at graphs, then a $99 upgrade to get the full version is not a bad deal.

DLBC, fuggedaboutit. If you have enough subs or complicated enough set up to need this, you are probably better off buying a higher tier pre/pro with all of that included than these bottom tier units paying half the price of the unit for DLBC.
 

Pdxwayne

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#14
I will not buy another Onkyo AVR.
I will not buy another Onkyo AVR.
I will not buy another Onkyo AVR.
....
Probably buying another Onkyo AVR in 6 months.
My Onkyo TX-NR808 developed the well known no audio issue about a year ago.....After owning it for about 9 years. I wonder if I should add Onkyo back to my new AVR consideration list.... the new Anthem is currently high on my list...
 

Trouble Maker

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#15
My Onkyo TX-NR808 developed the well known no audio issue about a year ago.....After owning it for about 9 years. I wonder if I should add Onkyo back to my new AVR consideration list.... the new Anthem is currently high on my list...
I might have been fine if either of the previous ones I owned lasted 9 years, if they both lasted 9 years I'm pretty sure I would have been fine, but combined they probably lasted less than 9 years.
 

Pdxwayne

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#16
I might have been fine if either of the previous ones I owned lasted 9 years, if they both lasted 9 years I'm pretty sure I would have been fine, but combined they probably lasted less than 9 years.
My friend gave me a 20+ years old Yamaha a while back and it is still working fine! I was using it for a while up util end of last year. Don't know about the new Onkyo reliability...
 

mongobot

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#17
I've had an Onkyo PR-SC5507 for a little over 10 years now. I had to send it back for servicing a couple times due to HDMI board issues.

If Onkyo were to offer an AVP with Dirac that measured well I might consider it despite the somewhat bitter experience of having to send my current unit back several times.
 
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