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Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

Rate this AVR

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 10 3.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 72 21.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 178 54.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 69 21.0%

  • Total voters
    329

appix

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Based on the Audioholics.com's interview with Chris, probably all the way down to 10 Hz. The interview was down in Aug 2014 so things could have changed since.

Thank you. That explains a bit how the Audyssey works.
 

OCA

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Thank you. That explains a bit how the Audyssey works.
The Audyssey test signal is a logarithmic swept sine (log chirp) covering from approximately 2.93Hz to 23,997.07Hz over 341.33ms at 48kHz sampling rate. It repeats 10 times, repetitions are used to "denoise" the signal. This signal resolution is 2.9Hz, provides a fairly low crest factor and is a continuous waveform that is easy on equipment and speakers.

A logarithmically swept sine has a "pink" spectrum, but is not pink noise. There is also a brief period of "silence" (background noise) measured before the chirps start to evaluate background noise and compute an SNR.
 
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SaChy

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Hello everyone.
Today I received an email from Dirac that the promotion for Dirac Live Bass Control ends on January 15. Last year I bought a Room Correction Full Bandwidth license. I heard the difference after configuration :). Do you think it's worth buying BassControl? My front speakers are Definitive Technology BP9080. Surround BP9060. You could say that there are 4 subwoofers to tame. In my opinion, these licenses are quite expensive. Thank you in advance for your response.
 

davidc

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Hello everyone.
Today I received an email from Dirac that the promotion for Dirac Live Bass Control ends on January 15. Last year I bought a Room Correction Full Bandwidth license. I heard the difference after configuration :). Do you think it's worth buying BassControl? My front speakers are Definitive Technology BP9080. Surround BP9060. You could say that there are 4 subwoofers to tame. In my opinion, these licenses are quite expensive. Thank you in advance for your response.
I just got the email a few minutes before your post. I will not be buying DLBC since I only have one sub, yet my main speakers can product more bass than the sub, and I heard that DBLC will cut off the bass from the mains.
 

peng

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I heard that DBLC will cut off the bass from the mains.
I would suggest you don't go by what you heard, unless you heard it from someone who really knows what he/she is talking about, sort of the authority...
 
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I would suggest you don't go by what you heard, unless you heard it from someone who really knows what he/she is talking about, sort of the authority...
Similar, I would ask the question of how DLBC work with genuine full range speakers as those DT's have inbuilt 12" and 10" subs. I don't see why it wouldn't work. One for @Flak to comment on. Probably expedited as you are on a hard deadline as to the 30% discount :)
 

peng

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Similar, I would ask the question of how DLBC work with genuine full range speakers as those DT's have inbuilt 12" and 10" subs. I don't see why it wouldn't work. One for @Flak to comment on. Probably expedited as you are on a hard deadline as to the 30% discount :)

Absolutely, someone like him would be worth listening to, though keep in mind he is naturally biased. My point is that lots of forum posts seem to indicate may hobbyists might be taking forum talks, including from reviewers, users who might be brand fans/loyalists too seriously. Obviously you are among the exceptions who at least know about @Flak , who is knowledgeable in DLBC for sure. One question I would like to ask Flak, is to confirm what Phil Jones alluded to in the recent D+M update YT video, that D+M/Masimo will get DL (that is without BC) to do some bass management too such as crossover. If that is true, I would think that your "genuine" full range speakers may not need DLBC, but I am not the authority so let's hear from flak, or you can open a ticket with Dirac's help line and hopefully get a response quick enough.

I did get the discount for my DLBC license (PC standalone only) and I tried it with one sub, quite happy with the results, I posted the FR graph not long too.

Edit: Found my graphs, linked in case you are interested to seeing:

 
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Steve Dallas

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Hello everyone.
Today I received an email from Dirac that the promotion for Dirac Live Bass Control ends on January 15. Last year I bought a Room Correction Full Bandwidth license. I heard the difference after configuration :). Do you think it's worth buying BassControl? My front speakers are Definitive Technology BP9080. Surround BP9060. You could say that there are 4 subwoofers to tame. In my opinion, these licenses are quite expensive. Thank you in advance for your response.

I added DLBC to my full spectrum license using that discount. My results are here:


And here is a decent roundup of the available DRC options in an X series Denon receiver:


Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I cannot hear much if any difference in my setup in my room. But I am in dedicated room with symmetrical placement of speakers and subs. Perhaps someone with a more complicated environment would benefit more.

Quite honestly, I think my Audyssey results, although a bit different, are just as good as my Dirac results and I could have skipped both licenses, but curiosity killed my wallet. :)
 

EWL5

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I added DLBC to my full spectrum license using that discount. My results are here:


And here is a decent roundup of the available DRC options in an X series Denon receiver:


Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I cannot hear much if any difference in my setup in my room. But I am in dedicated room with symmetrical placement of speakers and subs. Perhaps someone with a more complicated environment would benefit more.

Quite honestly, I think my Audyssey results, although a bit different, are just as good as my Dirac results and I could have skipped both licenses, but curiosity killed my wallet. :)
This is what I'm most afraid of and why I'm skipping DLBC. Although my room is not as ideal as yours, the only benefit from full-range DL for me over prior RC has been the much clearer dialogue and some improvement to music content.
 

davidc

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I would suggest you don't go by what you heard, unless you heard it from someone who really knows what he/she is talking about, sort of the authority...
Audioholics website testing and review, but let me double check
 

davidc

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Similar, I would ask the question of how DLBC work with genuine full range speakers as those DT's have inbuilt 12" and 10" subs. I don't see why it wouldn't work. One for @Flak to comment on. Probably expedited as you are on a hard deadline as to the 30% discount :)
Yes, I will. My mains are VMPS Super Tower III. 15" passive radiator. 15", 12" and (2) 10" woofers.
 

davidc

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Absolutely, someone like him would be worth listening to, though keep in mind he is naturally biased. My point is that lots of forum posts seem to indicate may hobbyists might be taking forum talks, including from reviewers, users who might be brand fans/loyalists too seriously. Obviously you are among the exceptions who at least know about @Flak , who is knowledgeable in DLBC for sure. One question I would like to ask Flak, is to confirm what Phil Jones alluded to in the recent D+M update YT video, that D+M/Masimo will get DL (that is without BC) to do some bass management too such as crossover. If that is true, I would think that your "genuine" full range speakers may not need DLBC, but I am not the authority so let's hear from flak, or you can open a ticket with Dirac's help line and hopefully get a response quick enough.

I did get the discount for my DLBC license (PC standalone only) and I tried it with one sub, quite happy with the results, I posted the FR graph not long too.

Edit: Found my graphs, linked in case you are interested to seeing:

Yes, I was correct. DLBC does put a high pass filter on the mains channel. It was discussed in this review and confirmed in a video interview with Denon's Phil Joans. The links are below this quote that I have copied. I guess ASR has not reviewed or tested DLBC yet? The good thing is that when ART is introduced for our AVR, you do not need to purchase DLBC as a precursor.

From Audioholics:

As Chief Audioholic Gene DellaSala noted in a recent article about the launch of Dirac Live Bass Control for Onkyo, Pioneer, and Integra gear, we’ve seen some products (from Audio Control and Arcam) that automatically place a high-pass filter on the main channels when Dirac Live Bass Control is active. That means you can’t set these channels to “large” or run them full-range. We have put in a request to Dirac to update DLBC to accommodate full-range support of the main speakers for users that want to take advantage full advantage of the low frequency bass output of very large capable tower speakers. We plan to discuss this in our up coming livestream this Wednesday, December 20, 2023 with Marantz to see the status of this request.

We've done some investigating and it appears to be a limitation of DLBC that Dirac has yet to resolve. We presume this will also be the case with DLBC implementation on (other brands) as well. Be mindful of this IF you wish to run your main L/R speakers full-range simultaneously with your powered subwoofers while using DLBC. This won't affect most users as we usually recommend bass managing ALL speakers as few people run true full-range towers capable of playing back LFE bass content.

— Gene DellaSala, President, Audioholics

 

peng

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Yes, I was correct. DLBC does put a high pass filter on the mains channel. It was discussed in this review and confirmed in a video interview with Denon's Phil Joans. The links are below this quote that I have copied. I guess ASR has not reviewed or tested DLBC yet? The good thing is that when ART is introduced for our AVR, you do not need to purchase DLBC as a precursor.

From Audioholics:

As Chief Audioholic Gene DellaSala noted in a recent article about the launch of Dirac Live Bass Control for Onkyo, Pioneer, and Integra gear, we’ve seen some products (from Audio Control and Arcam) that automatically place a high-pass filter on the main channels when Dirac Live Bass Control is active. That means you can’t set these channels to “large” or run them full-range. We have put in a request to Dirac to update DLBC to accommodate full-range support of the main speakers for users that want to take advantage full advantage of the low frequency bass output of very large capable tower speakers. We plan to discuss this in our up coming livestream this Wednesday, December 20, 2023 with Marantz to see the status of this request.

We've done some investigating and it appears to be a limitation of DLBC that Dirac has yet to resolve. We presume this will also be the case with DLBC implementation on (other brands) as well. Be mindful of this IF you wish to run your main L/R speakers full-range simultaneously with your powered subwoofers while using DLBC. This won't affect most users as we usually recommend bass managing ALL speakers as few people run true full-range towers capable of playing back LFE bass content.

— Gene DellaSala, President, Audioholics


But you are saying the same thing I have said, what has it got to do with my post? Be clear, and never said anything about you being "not correct" in my first or second post. I was just suggesting we asked Flak to confirm what Phil Jones alluded to, "alluded" because iirc, he wasn't being 100% definitive, it was sort of something that he said was coming... My point is, if in fact Masimo is adding bass management to DL, then if you only use one subwoofer, you probably don't need the "BC" license and in that case we would be in agreement.
 

davidc

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But you are saying the same thing I have said, what has it got to do with my post? I was just suggesting we asked Flak to confirm what Phil Jones alluded to, "alluded" because iirc, he wasn't being 100% definitive, it was sort of something that he said was coming...
Ok, I'll ask Flavio. I've got an open case with him at DIRAC. I thought Phil confirmed it in the video, but I don't want to watch the whole thing again. So, you watched the video and Phil didn't confirm it...just alluded to it?
 

peng

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Ok, I'll ask Flavio. I've got an open case with him at DIRAC. I thought Phil confirmed it in the video, but I don't want to watch the whole thing again. So, you watched the video and Phil didn't confirm it...just alluded to it?

Yes, I watched it the day it was launched, it cover a quite upcoming updates, and he sort of casually, like a by the way kind of things, about the bass control. I also got the feeling that it is a Masimo, i.e. D+M thing, that it may be apply to others such as Onkyo, Arcam etc., but again to me I just don't recall he stated the whole thing as facts, but rather, something anticipated to be coming down the piple. I could be wrong, he might meant Dirac has already committed to do it. Like you, I am not going to re-watch that video. I actually hate those YT video and much prefer reading articles, to watching videos but I guess I am in the minority on this as I can see more and more YT videos are popping up, even bench test results.:(
 

davidc

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Yes, I watched it the day it was launched, it cover a quite upcoming updates, and he sort of casually, like a by the way kind of things, about the bass control. I also got the feeling that it is a Masimo, i.e. D+M thing, that it may be apply to others such as Onkyo, Arcam etc., but again to me I just don't recall he stated the whole thing as facts, but rather, something anticipated to be coming down the piple. I could be wrong, he might meant Dirac has already committed to do it. Like you, I am not going to re-watch that video. I actually hate those YT video and much prefer reading articles, to watching videos but I guess I am in the minority on this as I can see more and more YT videos are popping up, even bench test results.:(
Peng...you are exactly like me. I much prefer to read articles as well rather than watching videos. I only like YT videos for repairing something like on my car or house. Other than that, if frustrates me. I keep saying, "Get to the point"! When I read, I can scan the article and read at my own speed.
 

peng

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Peng...you are exactly like me. I much prefer to read articles as well rather than watching videos. I only like YT videos for repairing something like on my car or house. Other than that, if frustrates me. I keep saying, "Get to the point"! When I read, I can scan the article and read at my own speed.
If I quote one of those videos to make any points to anyone, I would always provide the time mark, if you catch my drift lol, and always appreciated others who did the same.
 

davidc

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If I quote one of those videos to make any points to anyone, I would always provide the time mark, if you catch my drift lol, and always appreciated others who did the same.
Good point...but then I have to go back and watch it again. lol
I've reopened my ticket with DIRAC, hopefully Flavio (flac) will be the one to reply.
 
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About 7 minutes into that video that @davidc posted. Still could do with some further elucidation as the mention is that of a HPF being applied to mains when you have additional subs. Not sure if it would be the case if your mains and ancillary speakers are effectively subs themselves.
 

davidc

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If I quote one of those videos to make any points to anyone, I would always provide the time mark, if you catch my drift lol, and always appreciated others who did the same.


Ok, got the reply from Flavio:

Flavio Fellah commented:
Hello,
yes, Dirac Bass Control applies a high pass filter but you can define at which frequency... very low if desired, please take into account though that the capabilities of reproducing the lowest frequencies at a relatively high volume are often very limited (hence a subwoofer is used)
However, if you want to take full advantage of all the capabilities of all speakers, then you need ART (Active Room Treatment) as it doesn't use crossovers.
It's possible that your Denon will support it but if/when are questions for Denon itself to answer
1704906696778.png

Kind regards,
Flavio
 
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