Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[PGAMiami]

Hi, Have you bought in to Dirac? I have the 4800 and am overall happy with it. Debating purchasing Dirac. Any one out there bought in and regret it? Thanks. Happy listening!

I have only used Dirac with the 4800.

My point of comparison is a Meitner MA3 DAC with an Audiolense convolution filter that has 50,000+ taps designed by Mitch Barnett. For music the convolver runs on Roon, for TV a lower latency version runs on a PC with the audio extracted via toslink. The TV with the Meitner on stereo sounds great, but it lacks the fun factor of surround.

So I decided to give the 4800 a try.

I have a custom made XLR AB switch that can switch from the Meitner to the 4800 and I’m only using the 4800 amps for the surround speakers. The Meitner with the Roon Audiolense convolution is stunningly good for music and the 4800 with Dirac does not compete at this level. That said, for surround I much prefer the 4800 with Dirac. I expect some of this is the HDMI audio, but the electronics in the 4800 and sophistication of Dirac I’m sure are also important.

My speaker set up is very simple, just a 4.0 system with TAD R1s in front and custom made small bookshelf speakers as rears. But even with that the 4800 sounds great with superb imaging left to right and front to rear. I suspect much of that is from Dirac matching the FR and timbre of the speakers, and also accurately steering audio to the 4 speakers. The bass management is quite good and even with no sub, LFE is great and the small bookshelf speakers sound as if they were large speakers even with the crossover set to 100hz.

 

[Rockman2]

Hi, Have you bought in to Dirac? I have the 4800 and am overall happy with it. Debating purchasing Dirac. Any one out there bought in and regret it? Thanks. Happy listening!

No I just used Audyssey. Martin Logan also has calibration for the subs but I have not done that yet. As I said this will just keep getting better as I do more. Just don't have a tone of spare time so it takes a while to tinker with it.

 

[Jack B]

Hi, Have you bought in to Dirac? I have the 4800 and am overall happy with it. Debating purchasing Dirac. Any one out there bought in and regret it? Thanks. Happy listening!

I second the question! Thanks for asking it.

 

[enricoclaudio]

I have a X4800H with Dirac Live. In Speaker Preset 1 I have Audyssey calibration and in Speaker Preset 2 I have Dirac Live calibration. After 2 or 3 switching back and forward between Dirac and Audyssey, my X4800H have been set on Speaker Preset 2 (Dirac Live) for the last 3 months. I don't even bother to check on Audyssey calibration anymore.

 

[MiniC]

I turned on my x4800h. It kept going to Startup, please wait…..
The starting up please wait stopped at about 90% and didn’t budge.
‘I tried powered off the unit thru the power button then powered back on. It will keep going to starting up please wait and repeating The loop.
I decided to power off and unplugged the power cord for 1min.
‘Once I powered on, this broke the loop.
My current fw is 3000-4023-1031-8790.
‘Then I went to check for latest Fw And there is a new fw. Estimated 6min.
Latest fw is 4100-9113-4031-8790.
Now I check the latest fw again. And there is another fw. Estimated 9min.
Now fw version is 4100-9113-4033-8790.
No more new fw.

 

[enricoclaudio]

I turned on my x4800h. It kept going to Startup, please wait…..
The starting up please wait stopped at about 90% and didn’t budge.
‘I tried powered off the unit thru the power button then powered back on. It will keep going to starting up please wait and repeating The loop.
I decided to power off and unplugged the power cord for 1min.
‘Once I powered on, this broke the loop.
My current fw is 3000-4023-1031-8790.
‘Then I went to check for latest Fw And there is a new fw. Estimated 6min.
Latest fw is 4100-9113-4031-8790.
Now I check the latest fw again. And there is another fw. Estimated 9min.
Now fw version is 4100-9113-4033-8790.
No more new fw.

4100-9113-4033-8790 is the latest firmware so you are good to go.

 

[mj30250]

I have a X4800H with Dirac Live. In Speaker Preset 1 I have Audyssey calibration and in Speaker Preset 2 I have Dirac Live calibration. After 2 or 3 switching back and forward between Dirac and Audyssey, my X4800H have been set on Speaker Preset 2 (Dirac Live) for the last 3 months. I don't even bother to check on Audyssey calibration anymore.

Apologies if this was answered in the thread already, but have you taken post-correction measurements of each to determine what the differences are between the two? What are you hearing?

Thanks.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Apologies if this was answered in the thread already, but have you taken post-correction measurements of each to determine what the differences are between the two? What are you hearing?

Thanks.

I posted my REW measurements in this thread a few months back. Just check on the first 10 pages or so.

 

[aaddas]

I did not find any AV recicever worth to pay upto 4000 USD.

 

[deejaystu]

Hi everyone

Pardon my newbyness in advance.. I've read through this thread back and forth maybe four times, as well as the 3800h thread on ASR. I'm currently looking to upgrade from a Denon 2700h to make use of two added channels, but also to make use of the better amp section on the 4800h since the 2700h only pushes 95acd and I won't be using pre's. My hesitancy comes from the fact that the Denon 2700h really does sound great, I don't believe there's any tests for it on ASR likely because it's a lower tier model. But it has support for all audio codecs and still uses the AKM dac chip. The unit I have was refurb and doesn't have any HDMI issues either.

Do you guys think I would hear a noticeable difference from the 2700h to the 4800h? I couldn't find info anywhere online but what type of Dac chip does the 4800h use? Is it the TI chip or ESS?? Is the newer tech they boast surrounding DDSC and AL32/HD32 gimicky? Or is it the real deal?

I can score the 4800h from A4L for $1799 with a 3 year warranty and I already have a buyer for my 2700h for $500. Curious any current 4800h owner's feedback about their unit

 

[Rockman2]

Love mine and my last one was a Marantz SR8015

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Hi everyone

Pardon my newbyness in advance.. I've read through this thread back and forth maybe four times, as well as the 3800h thread on ASR. I'm currently looking to upgrade from a Denon 2700h to make use of two added channels, but also to make use of the better amp section on the 4800h since the 2700h only pushes 95acd and I won't be using pre's. My hesitancy comes from the fact that the Denon 2700h really does sound great, I don't believe there's any tests for it on ASR likely because it's a lower tier model. But it has support for all audio codecs and still uses the AKM dac chip. The unit I have was refurb and doesn't have any HDMI issues either.

Do you guys think I would hear a noticeable difference from the 2700h to the 4800h? I couldn't find info anywhere online but what type of Dac chip does the 4800h use? Is it the TI chip or ESS?? Is the newer tech they boast surrounding DDSC and AL32/HD32 gimicky? Or is it the real deal?

I can score the 4800h from A4L for $1799 with a 3 year warranty and I already have a buyer for my 2700h for $500. Curious any current 4800h owner's feedback about their unit

Not sure about your speakers but I wouldn't count on hearing many differences unless you push your speakers. I have been testing the 3800h and 4800h and in real life I see the 4800h as a hard sale because they basically gave the 3800h all the same features and only the stuff you can measure is different.
For me, it was not worth the $600 difference between the 3800 and 4800 but I do have external amps.
Coming from the 2700h though, there are plenty extra features in both 3800 and 4800 over your exiting one though

Ps the price difference is based on the pricing I got for them not normal retail.

 

[Rockman2]

I have attached a new pic. The martin Logan Dynamo 800 vibrates a lot. It moved all over the floor. Martin logan said to put a stack of books on it but I did not think that would look good. I found black Granite tile and painted the edge with Satin Black paint. It took 4 pieces of tile to stop the vibrating across the floor. It looks better than books and the base is much deeper. I am trying to turn up the sub a little at a time. I am using the 4800 interface on screen and I am at +3db so far. It does sound great. I wish they had weighted these boxes.

 

[MiniC]

Hi everyone

Pardon my newbyness in advance.. I've read through this thread back and forth maybe four times, as well as the 3800h thread on ASR. I'm currently looking to upgrade from a Denon 2700h to make use of two added channels, but also to make use of the better amp section on the 4800h since the 2700h only pushes 95acd and I won't be using pre's. My hesitancy comes from the fact that the Denon 2700h really does sound great, I don't believe there's any tests for it on ASR likely because it's a lower tier model. But it has support for all audio codecs and still uses the AKM dac chip. The unit I have was refurb and doesn't have any HDMI issues either.

Do you guys think I would hear a noticeable difference from the 2700h to the 4800h? I couldn't find info anywhere online but what type of Dac chip does the 4800h use? Is it the TI chip or ESS?? Is the newer tech they boast surrounding DDSC and AL32/HD32 gimicky? Or is it the real deal?

I can score the 4800h from A4L for $1799 with a 3 year warranty and I already have a buyer for my 2700h for $500. Curious any current 4800h owner's feedback about their unit

I upgraded from Denon x1300w to the 4800.
Had the x1300w for 6 years.
I got the audyssey app on my iPad.
The x1300w supported Atmos.
4800h straight out of box calibration with audyssey app has a better sound staging than x1300w, able to differentiate clearly the difference.
Now I just bought the Dirac license.
Performed the Dirac calibration without any adjustment and the sound staging, bass, treble and clarity is even better. Not a techie on sound measurements so I just use my ears.

 

[deejaystu]

Not sure about your speakers but I wouldn't count on hearing many differences unless you push your speakers. I have been testing the 3800h and 4800h and in real life I see the 4800h as a hard sale because they basically gave the 3800h all the same features and only the stuff you can measure is different.
For me, it was not worth the $600 difference between the 3800 and 4800 but I do have external amps.
Coming from the 2700h though, there are plenty extra features in both 3800 and 4800 over your exiting one though

Ps the price difference is based on the pricing I got for them not normal retail.

Thanks for that feedback, extremely helpful. I think since I'm staying "in the box" the monolithic amp on the 4800 seems extremely attractive if there really is better channel separation/dynamic like they say. The few tests I found on Youtube have reviewers stating that there is certainly an audible difference from 3800 to 4800, claiming brighter and more spacious. It's hard to say if you would notice a difference running externals at normal listening volumes, that would depend heavily on your external power. But I'm mainly looking for anyone else who is not running externals to chime in since that will be my primary application.

And yeah I agree from the 2700 to 3800/4800 there is plenty of stuff that makes the upgrade attractive. Pre support being the obvious, but also 4 discrete sub-outs which I will make use of, new GUI, more power, better quality amp, all 8k inputs vs just one, height channels, and then all of the other fluff they claim which I've yet to validated like the DDSC and AL32.

The other thing is I'm already reading rumors of new Denon 48 gbps AVR's in production to hit shelves early 2024. Makes me wonder if I should hold off until those come out.

 

[dlaloum]

Hi everyone

Pardon my newbyness in advance.. I've read through this thread back and forth maybe four times, as well as the 3800h thread on ASR. I'm currently looking to upgrade from a Denon 2700h to make use of two added channels, but also to make use of the better amp section on the 4800h since the 2700h only pushes 95acd and I won't be using pre's. My hesitancy comes from the fact that the Denon 2700h really does sound great, I don't believe there's any tests for it on ASR likely because it's a lower tier model. But it has support for all audio codecs and still uses the AKM dac chip. The unit I have was refurb and doesn't have any HDMI issues either.

Do you guys think I would hear a noticeable difference from the 2700h to the 4800h? I couldn't find info anywhere online but what type of Dac chip does the 4800h use? Is it the TI chip or ESS?? Is the newer tech they boast surrounding DDSC and AL32/HD32 gimicky? Or is it the real deal?

I can score the 4800h from A4L for $1799 with a 3 year warranty and I already have a buyer for my 2700h for $500. Curious any current 4800h owner's feedback about their unit

I blind testing differences between the DAC's on the 2700 vs 4800 are unlikely to be identifiable.

The differences between the amps on the two receivers MAY be audible in blind testing, if (and only if) the speaker demand on the amps are close to the boundaries of their performance envelope - if both amps and speakers are well within their capabilities (and most especially with regards to impedance and phase angles!) - then differences there are likely to be negligible (and potentially prone to psycho-acoustics... not identifiable blind) - The 4800 has a more robust amp section - so if the 2700 is on the margin of what is needed for your speakers, the 4800 could sound better.

Finally the main difference - DSP processing, RoomEQ.... Dirac has made a substantial difference (for the better) in my setup, over Audyssey XT32 - with the 4800 DIrac is an option, with the 2700 it isn't. - how much of a difference this can make, is down to your room, your speakers, and how much time you are willing to spend tweaking Audyssey with the app... with enough tweaking Audyssey can get very close to what Dirac achieves, Dirac gets there more quickly with less fuss using mostly default values.

Also obviously there are feature differences - if you want multi-sub with directional sub processing, go the 4800.

If you are not aiming for Dirac, then you should also check for any remaining stock of 4700's - there may be bargains out there.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Thanks for that feedback, extremely helpful. I think since I'm staying "in the box" the monolithic amp on the 4800 seems extremely attractive if there really is better channel separation/dynamic like they say. The few tests I found on Youtube have reviewers stating that there is certainly an audible difference from 3800 to 4800, claiming brighter and more spacious. It's hard to say if you would notice a difference running externals at normal listening volumes, that would depend heavily on your external power. But I'm mainly looking for anyone else who is not running externals to chime in since that will be my primary application.

And yeah I agree from the 2700 to 3800/4800 there is plenty of stuff that makes the upgrade attractive. Pre support being the obvious, but also 4 discrete sub-outs which I will make use of, new GUI, more power, better quality amp, all 8k inputs vs just one, height channels, and then all of the other fluff they claim which I've yet to validated like the DDSC and AL32.

The other thing is I'm already reading rumors of new Denon 48 gbps AVR's in production to hit shelves early 2024. Makes me wonder if I should hold off until those come out.

Reviewers tend to have big imagination. Also run to run calibrations can make big differences. For example I ended up with two 3800 and one 4800 and I liked one of the 3800 more than other lol
Why? Because while I ran the same calibration and steps, small difference in positioning and how it calculated things, will give you different results
Let's put it this way ..I wanted to prefer the 4800h because I was biased towards the Japan made unit from their own factory.
And even though the price difference was only $600 for me, no matter how much I tested, I didn't see anything worth spending more except for bragging rights
YMMV


Here is a crappy video where I showed the avrs I was comparing

 

[deejaystu]

I blind testing differences between the DAC's on the 2700 vs 4800 are unlikely to be identifiable.

The differences between the amps on the two receivers MAY be audible in blind testing, if (and only if) the speaker demand on the amps are close to the boundaries of their performance envelope - if both amps and speakers are well within their capabilities (and most especially with regards to impedance and phase angles!) - then differences there are likely to be negligible (and potentially prone to psycho-acoustics... not identifiable blind) - The 4800 has a more robust amp section - so if the 2700 is on the margin of what is needed for your speakers, the 4800 could sound better.

Finally the main difference - DSP processing, RoomEQ.... Dirac has made a substantial difference (for the better) in my setup, over Audyssey XT32 - with the 4800 DIrac is an option, with the 2700 it isn't. - how much of a difference this can make, is down to your room, your speakers, and how much time you are willing to spend tweaking Audyssey with the app... with enough tweaking Audyssey can get very close to what Dirac achieves, Dirac gets there more quickly with less fuss using mostly default values.

Also obviously there are feature differences - if you want multi-sub with directional sub processing, go the 4800.

If you are not aiming for Dirac, then you should also check for any remaining stock of 4700's - there may be bargains out there.

This is precisely the response I was looking for. I'm running a 7.3 KEF (Q350 LR and Q650C) sound stage with Def Tech Pro Monitor 1000 surrounds, and 3 SVS SB1000 Pro subs. Adding two heights to make for 7.3.2 (not looking for advice on speaker configurations, I have limitations in my room). My room is fairly large (15x18 ft), so the option for DIRAC is a huge factor. The 4700 is attractive for other reasons, the older Denon internals seem rock solid, more so then the newer builds for some reason (the Japan made 4800 being the exception).

DSP processing is also fairly attractive to me since I enjoy experimenting a lot with different sound modes. When I used to have my Yamaha, they had a whole menu of different DSP options that Denon doesn't offer. The Auro 3d upgrade will also be a major add for me (even if only upscaling).

What you're saying about the amp capabilities makes a lot of sense to me honestly. But isn't it hard for any AVR to match up to even lower end speaker bandwidth? The KEF Q350 series for example is rated for 120w each and the center is 150w alone. The Pro Monitor 1000's are rated for 200w. That tells me the 2700h is vastly under powered, or am I not understanding that correctly?

Thx for the feedback, that was a great response

 

[deejaystu]

Reviewers tend to have big imagination. Also run to run calibrations can make big differences. For example I ended up with two 3800 and one 4800 and I liked one of the 3800 more than other lol
Why? Because while I ran the same calibration and steps, small difference in positioning and how it calculated things, will give you different results
Let's put it this way ..I wanted to prefer the 4800h because I was biased towards the Japan made unit from their own factory.
And even though the price difference was only $600 for me, no matter how much I tested, I didn't see anything worth spending more except for bragging rights
YMMV


Here is a crappy video where I showed the avrs I was comparing

You know, I don't disagree about YT reviews being unreliable, but I will say the review I'm primarily referencing is the one from Ripewave Audio who I actually trust. Check the review where he compared the Cinema 40/50 vs 3800/4800. It was very informative

 

[dlaloum]

This is precisely the response I was looking for. I'm running a 7.3 KEF (Q350 LR and Q650C) sound stage with Def Tech Pro Monitor 1000 surrounds, and 3 SVS SB1000 Pro subs. Adding two heights to make for 7.3.2 (not looking for advice on speaker configurations, I have limitations in my room). My room is fairly large (15x18 ft), so the option for DIRAC is a huge factor. The 4700 is attractive for other reasons, the older Denon internals seem rock solid, more so then the newer builds for some reason (the Japan made 4800 being the exception).

DSP processing is also fairly attractive to me since I enjoy experimenting a lot with different sound modes. When I used to have my Yamaha, they had a whole menu of different DSP options that Denon doesn't offer. The Auro 3d upgrade will also be a major add for me (even if only upscaling).

What you're saying about the amp capabilities makes a lot of sense to me honestly. But isn't it hard for any AVR to match up to even lower end speaker bandwidth? The KEF Q350 series for example is rated for 120w each and the center is 150w alone. The Pro Monitor 1000's are rated for 200w. That tells me the 2700h is vastly under powered, or am I not understanding that correctly?

Thx for the feedback, that was a great response

The power ratings of speakers are for the most part irrelevant - they tell you how much CONTINUOUS power it would take to turn them into smoking ruins...

The specs to look at are things like SPL.... sound pressure level output per Watt input (or per 2.83V)

Once you know what level you like to listen at (needs to be measured - but need not be overly accurate) - then you can work out how much power you REALLY need to provide that sound pressure level (SPL) and then calculate how much power is needed for 20db headroom to handle musical peaks.

I listen at around 72db, and calculate my setup to ensure 75db and 95db peaks (my system is capable of far more!!)

To give you an idea, with my innefficient 86db/w speakers, I use around 4W normally and peaks use no more than 16W.

So much for worrying about "power"

Having said that, the far more difficult thing to determine - mostly due to lack of information - is what is needed to handle low impedance dips in the speaker frequency response and/or steep phase angles.

If you can find a test for your speakers where they show the speaker impedance (in ohms) vs the speaker frequency, you will see that it varies quite widely... wherever the speaker impedance is above 6ohm - it won't be an issue - but wherever the impedance drops down low, to 4 ohm or below - that can be a problem.
My speakers drop down to 1.6 ohm - and many amps just don't sound great on them...
To handle such low impedances, the amp needs to be able to provide lots of current (Amps) rather than the Volts that are needed for more "normal" 8ohm speakers.
Hence my 100W AVR, sound pretty poor driving my speakers - it has plenty of power - but the power supply cannot provide the required current. I use external amps capable of driving 1200W into 2 ohm (ie: they can provide plenty of current) - and yes they merely idle, but they sound great.

I have also used my old 1980's Quad 606 power amp with these speakers, which are rated 135W @ 8ohm, and only 90W @ 2ohm - they too sound great - both of these amps have no trouble handling low impedances within their power constraints.

If your speakers have low impedances - you may find that you need external amps to help out, regardless which AVR you opt for. (unless you go for something very muscular like the Onkyo RZ70, or the Denon AV1h)