Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[GabrielPhoto]

I am debating between the 4800h and the RZ70 mainly because I need at least 2 real separate outputs for my Sub and my TR so I can apply DIRAC to the SUBS while the TR platform (Hovereze) gets the clean signal.
The 4800h will cost me about $2100 all in after paying for Dirac (I got a nice contact ). I am still waiting on pricing on the RZ70.
I like that the Denon has the TR "option" and 4 outputs in case I ever need more but on the other hand, I expect the RZ70 to be cheaper and I get 2 extra channels just in case.
Basically hoping for Amir to review the RZ70 to make a decision.
Then again...maybe just applying the Dirac Bass to 40hz and higher may be enough with my current RZ50 since my Heze is mostly working from 20hz to 1hz...so perhaps I dont need to waste more money lol


PS after reading the 2 extra channels cannot be used for Wides or .6 atmos, I am less interested in the Onkyo now.

 

[RF Air]

Good morning, I currently have the 4700H model, do you find the change to the new 4800H model interesting? Thank you very much and greetings!

Welcome @canaiya

I replaced an older Legacy Denon AVR-5600 (25 Years Old) with the new X4800H. Obviously, it was a remarkable upgrade for me. It also speaks to the reliability of the Denon products which I have owned many that have served me faithfully for many years.

The SINAD of your 4700H will not be a factor relative to the X4800H, at least from a listening experience. There are some owners who want the 4700H with the AKM DAC's because the SINAD Performance was outstanding, in the low 100's which my 4800H tested at a relative 95 with the TI DAC's.

What was improved is the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) and the GUI (Graphical User Interface) which was updated and appears better with 1080p and more intuitive, plus some capabilities that are helpful that may not exist on the 4700H. I had considered this to be a more desirable feature over the 4700H.

Four Independent Subwoofer Outputs, the latest Audyssey, redesigned Amplifier Section and controllability, Dirac Capability, latest 8K HDMI processing that was problematic on the earliest 4700H released and the 2 Line Display were other enhancements for me as well. The Jitter Noise Chip was also desirable for me with the design which may not have existed with the 4700H

I find the 4800H to be very capable for my use and has everything that I can use or upgrade for my environment. The flexibility, features and performance have exceeded my expectations. My application is 5.2 Theater which will upgrade to a 5.2.4, or a 7.3.4 system. I drive 5 KEF Reference Speakers with External McIntosh Amplifiers, 2 REL S-Series Subwoofers; and the 4 Atmos Speakers will be driven by the Denon AVR. I have 2 additional KEF Ref Speaker that I may add for the 7.2 or 7.3 Set-up. I will likely use the KEF R8 Meta Atmos Speakers for the Front and Rear.

In all, so far; I find the 4800H has performed great and is very capable for my use. I also have a Denon HEOS Speaker in another room which the 4800H connects with which has given me additional feature for whole home entertainment. I hope I answered your question. If you sell your 4700H to upgrade for the 4800H, you may be able to have some benefits that will allow you to make the most of your sale (if your unit has AKM DAC's) and have the added features with the latest 4800H. If the additional features are not needed, you still have a great AVR in the 4700H.

 

[MiniC]

What is a microphone stand? Please link. I really like that he is not tall. Well thank you.

Hi, It’s actually consist of 3 parts that put together.
1st item is a camera tripod with a rotatable ball head. It has horizontal panning so it’s easy to adjust the planar position and elevation by having my tripod at fixed location.
Previously I was just using a tripod and place the tripod on the recliner and moving around my tripod. After learning from peng’s audyssey link and saw some pictures. I decided to improvise and find parts from my camera gears and form similar structure.

2nd item is the insta360 selfie stick, the bottom of the stick has a 1/4” female mount hole.
3rd item is a camera ball head with 1/4” mounting holes.


I think u can find these items easily from a camera shop.

 

[Brambo67]

Welcome @canaiya

I replaced an older Legacy Denon AVR-5600 (25 Years Old) with the new X4800H. Obviously, it was a remarkable upgrade for me. It also speaks to the reliability of the Denon products which I have owned many that have served me faithfully for many years.

The SINAD of your 4700H will not be a factor relative to the X4800H, at least from a listening experience. There are some owners who want the 4700H with the AKM DAC's because the SINAD Performance was outstanding, in the low 100's which my 4800H tested at a relative 95 with the TI DAC's.

What was improved is the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) and the GUI (Graphical User Interface) which was updated and appears better with 1080p and more intuitive, plus some capabilities that are helpful that may not exist on the 4700H. I had considered this to be a more desirable feature over the 4700H.

Four Independent Subwoofer Outputs, the latest Audyssey, redesigned Amplifier Section and controllability, Dirac Capability, latest 8K HDMI processing that was problematic on the earliest 4700H released and the 2 Line Display were other enhancements for me as well. The Jitter Noise Chip was also desirable for me with the design which may not have existed with the 4700H

I find the 4800H to be very capable for my use and has everything that I can use or upgrade for my environment. The flexibility, features and performance have exceeded my expectations. My application is 5.2 Theater which will upgrade to a 5.2.4, or a 7.3.4 system. I drive 5 KEF Reference Speakers with External McIntosh Amplifiers, 2 REL S-Series Subwoofers; and the 4 Atmos Speakers will be driven by the Denon AVR. I have 2 additional KEF Ref Speaker that I may add for the 7.2 or 7.3 Set-up. I will likely use the KEF R8 Meta Atmos Speakers for the Front and Rear.

In all, so far; I find the 4800H has performed great and is very capable for my use. I also have a Denon HEOS Speaker in another room which the 4800H connects with which has given me additional feature for whole home entertainment. I hope I answered your question. If you sell your 4700H to upgrade for the 4800H, you may be able to have some benefits that will allow you to make the most of your sale (if your unit has AKM DAC's) and have the added features with the latest 4800H. If the additional features are not needed, you still have a great AVR in the 4700H.

Differences between 4700 and 4800 are:

1. amp lay-out (according to Amirm 4800 is scoring better on SINAD on the internal amps)
2. individual disconnecting of line out for external amps on 4800 on all channels
3. better (newer) DSP
4. more sound processing modes for 4800
5. made in Japan and not Vietnam
6. Much more expensive (4800)
7. Nicer GUI
8. Less analog connections on 4800
9. No HDMI on front for 4800
10. DIRAC option for 4800 (expect having to pay much more for license(s))
11. I think updated WiFi connection options if I'm correct
12. New (better?) power supply on 4800
13. 8K support on all HDMI ports

Important to consider:

• you will never do A - B comparison between both machines... it's a mental thing as the 4700 is outstanding
• will you drive separate external amps in various lay-outs?
• do you want to pay for DIRAC or spend time on proper setup in Audyssey
• do you belief Japanese hands to be better than Vietnamese... and this having an impact on your (daily) listening experience
• are you planning to drive an 8K TV and use all kinds of 8K input?

I feel save to say; spend time on setting up your 4700 properly and you'll have a great machine until the next game changers come (Atmos 3D or anything in that department) But of course; if you want to spend money and finance Sound Uniteds marketing team please feel free.

 

[canaiya]

Good morning, thank you very much @RF Air for the welcome and for the answer. Thank you very much also @Brambo67.

The reason for considering the change is that I bought my 4700 before the price increase that occurred after COVID. Also on promotion, so I have an opportunity right now to get rid of it for very little money. This, after more years, will not occur again.

My 4700 is from the first batch. Therefore, it has a better DAC than those manufactured later but, on the other hand, it has the problem of HDMI.

I think that changing to the new 4800, I will have better technology, a product made in Japan and not in Vietnam, and that in the future it will be able to sell better than the 4700 due to the fame it has acquired due to the HDMI problem. Hence, I consider the change.

In my current setup I have no external amplifiers. It is something that I have considered on occasion to connect a vinyl record, but having to have two computers on to listen to movies has always thrown me back.

Dirac catches me too old and with little time, and I have read that it is quite complicated. So I think I would continue to use the Audyssey singles.

And, currently, I do not plan to move to an 8k tv. I have recently acquired a 4k and I think I have it for many years.

Thank you very much for the help! All the best!

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Differences between 4700 and 4800 are:

1. amp lay-out (according to Amirm 4800 is scoring better on SINAD on the internal amps)
2. individual disconnecting of line out for external amps on 4800 on all channels
3. better (newer) DSP
4. more sound processing modes for 4800
5. made in Japan and not Vietnam
6. Much more expensive (4800)
7. Nicer GUI
8. Less analog connections on 4800
9. No HDMI on front for 4800
10. DIRAC option for 4800 (expect having to pay much more for license(s))
11. I think updated WiFi connection options if I'm correct
12. New (better?) power supply on 4800
13. 8K support on all HDMI ports

Important to consider:

• you will never do A - B comparison between both machines... it's a mental thing as the 4700 is outstanding
• will you drive separate external amps in various lay-outs?
• do you want to pay for DIRAC or spend time on proper setup in Audyssey
• do you belief Japanese hands to be better than Vietnamese... and this having an impact on your (daily) listening experience
• are you planning to drive an 8K TV and use all kinds of 8K input?

I feel save to say; spend time on setting up your 4700 properly and you'll have a great machine until the next game changers come (Atmos 3D or anything in that department) But of course; if you want to spend money and finance Sound Uniteds marketing team please feel free.

The 4800h has 4 sub output, TR option and DIRAC options which are BIG differences (among others). Are they not important to you? Fine with that but to call it just marketing is absurd.

 

[ban25]

One thing to note is that the new D+M line (3800/4800/C50/C40/etc) has 4 independent subwoofer outputs with an interesting optional feature called "LFE Distribution" that distributes the LFE channel back into the mains, assuming you have full-range mains. Audioholics has a video about it here:

This is something that's not present on the older models and IIRC Gene said it was previously only on Storm & Trinnov (Storm for sure since he has one).

 

[GabrielPhoto]

One thing to note is that the new D+M line (3800/4800/C50/C40/etc) has 4 independent subwoofer outputs with an interesting optional feature called "LFE Distribution" that distributes the LFE channel back into the mains, assuming you have full-range mains. Audioholics has a video about it here:

This is something that's not present on the older models and IIRC Gene said it was previously only on Storm & Trinnov (Storm for sure since he has one).

Oh yes good point. In fact, someone in AVSFORUM is using that to create a directional TR setup!

 

[RF Air]

Differences between 4700 and 4800 are:

1. amp lay-out (according to Amirm 4800 is scoring better on SINAD on the internal amps)
2. individual disconnecting of line out for external amps on 4800 on all channels
3. better (newer) DSP
4. more sound processing modes for 4800
5. made in Japan and not Vietnam
6. Much more expensive (4800)
7. Nicer GUI
8. Less analog connections on 4800
9. No HDMI on front for 4800
10. DIRAC option for 4800 (expect having to pay much more for license(s))
11. I think updated WiFi connection options if I'm correct
12. New (better?) power supply on 4800
13. 8K support on all HDMI ports

Important to consider:

• you will never do A - B comparison between both machines... it's a mental thing as the 4700 is outstanding
• will you drive separate external amps in various lay-outs?
• do you want to pay for DIRAC or spend time on proper setup in Audyssey
• do you belief Japanese hands to be better than Vietnamese... and this having an impact on your (daily) listening experience
• are you planning to drive an 8K TV and use all kinds of 8K input?

I feel save to say; spend time on setting up your 4700 properly and you'll have a great machine until the next game changers come (Atmos 3D or anything in that department) But of course; if you want to spend money and finance Sound Uniteds marketing team please feel free.

I would add that if you are a D+M User, there is the proprietary HEOS App that supports the independent Wireless Speakers for additional functionality. I use a 350 Speaker for a separate room which allows me to play from my AVR or use independently with Alexa and HEOS Apps.

The Japanese build consideration was initially considered a plus on these Forum boards because it was considered an advantage for DACs that may have been "Binned" for better performance. The workmanship and the ability to respond to any production issues, changes or any reliability factors was actually mentioned in the launch presentation. It seems silly to mention, but there is a bias here that may be non-sequitor. However, with the point being espoused upon with some evidence of the High-End product lines (110, A1H) being developed and built in Japan, may in fact be more than just a point for fluff marketing when their key resources are centered in Japan.

And with the 8K TV, I can add that my last AVR was orphaned by Video capability. I have to believe that 8K TV will become common, just like Video replaced by S-Video; Rear Projection replaced by Plasma, or any of the other wonderful miracles of invention, like OLED and 8K TV.

Great points @Brambo67, If I owned the AKM built 4700 with the option to sell at little consequence, I would probably make the jump to a 4800H just for the adventure of something new, which @canaiya has the desire for trying. Also noting that Dirac is appearing to run-off into the lead for Audio enhancement, but the investment is a consequential cost factor for many. User availability is still a precious commodity that offers the potential to build a better system, if you choose to play. The 4700H, in this regard, is orphaned here already.

 

[Spocko]

Does anybody know whether the latest D/M receivers have the center channel uplift feature? Essentially, if your center channel is below your TV and is easily localized, you can "lift" the sound so it sounds like it's coming from the center of the TV as long as you have an identical or similar speaker on top of the TV. The AVR sends the same signal to the Center Height and Center channels and then you adjust the delay until it's centered where you want (vertical phantom center?lol).

I know the latest Sony AVRs specifically call it "center channel uplift" but I don't know whether Denon has something similar that can be done.

 

[ban25]

Great points @Brambo67, If I owned the AKM built 4700 with the option to sell at little consequence, I would probably make the jump to a 4800H just for the adventure of something new, which @canaiya has the desire for trying. Also noting that Dirac is appearing to run-off into the lead for Audio enhancement, but the investment is a consequential cost factor for many. User availability is still a precious commodity that offers the potential to build a better system, if you choose to play. The 4700H, in this regard, is orphaned here already.

Another good point here is that as of today, there are probably still a few buyers interested specifically in an AKM-equipped 4700H. A year from now, that number of people is likely to be very small given that the market will have largely moved onto other products, with the SINAD-crowd having lots of ESS-equipped options to choose from. So if you want to unload the 4700 AKM for maximum value, the time is most likely now.

 

[RF Air]

Does anybody know whether the latest D/M receivers have the center channel uplift feature? Essentially, if your center channel is below your TV and is easily localized, you can "lift" the sound so it sounds like it's coming from the center of the TV as long as you have an identical or similar speaker on top of the TV. The AVR sends the same signal to the Center Height and Center channels and then you adjust the delay until it's centered where you want (vertical phantom center?lol).

I know the latest Sony AVRs specifically call it "center channel uplift" but I don't know whether Denon has something similar that can be done.

I'm not aware of this being available in the D+M AVR's. I would think this is a proprietary Sony product which may benefit Sound Bar Users. I wouldn't see it as a benefit for HT that is using Audyssey built within the Denon/Marantz AVR's.

 

[rvsixer]

I would think this is a proprietary Sony product which may benefit Sound Bar Users. I wouldn't see it as a benefit for HT that is using Audyssey built within the Denon/Marantz AVR's.

Other AVR's have it and its for speaker based installs (for example, Yamaha calls it "Dialogue Lift).

On the D+M units, not sure how Audyssey alone could pull that trick off with just LCR on the front wall (i.e. making the below-TV-center appear as if it is coming from the center of the fixed panel display...with no front height speaker(s) to assist).

 

[Dobbyisfree]

I am a little confused on the preamp mode. When used in preamp mode (selectively or all channels) I understand the amps are disconnected at some point in the signal and helps with noise and bumps the pre out voltage but do the amps stop drawing power as well?

No, my understanding is that that amps still sit powered up and idling, it's the same with my x3700. Although, there is a small power consumption drop between the AVR with ECO ON and normal amp assign to when you switch to full pre amp assign (which automatically forces ECO ON). Denon have informed me this is attributed to the internal amps slightly reducing idle consumption once they are disconnected.

I kind of like the idea of using the AVR as is to begin with and adding nice class D amps down the road and using this as a preamp but if the A/B amps are just continuously drawing power, even in preamp mode, it seems kind of a waste of electricity and feel like I should just wait to buy a surround processor like an AVM70 and amps together if that’s the case.

If power consumption is important to you, then if I were you I would investigate what the idle consumption is of the AVPs you are thinking about.

In full pre amp mode, the idle consumption of my x3700 is surprisingly low. As far as I am aware, D&M are the only manufacturer to offer the "ECO mode" that actually switches the PSU voltage rails, so significantly reduces consumption. If I had bought, for example, an MRX540 to use as a pre then I'd be using not far off double the power just idling.

Power consumption is important to me, so I use an x3700. Normal TV viewing, two A2-300s power LCR in 3.0.0, total of 13.5W additional power. Then, use 12V triggers when I switch "speaker preset" to full surround for other class D power amps (and subs auto on).

Can anyone confirm whats actually happening in the unit?

Hopefully, I have helped. My guess is that you'll find there isn't much difference in power consumption between the x4800 in pre amp mode and many of the AVPs (that's speculation though!).

For similar money to my x3700, I could've had a BASx MC-1. Lower form factor and lower power consumption. But I would lose XT32, Sub EQ HT and MultEQ-X. And, no longer have the speaker preset which saves me money as I don't need full surround when I'm watching the news! The maths for all those power amps being off for between 3 and 8 hours a day outweighed the cost saving for the lower pre amp power consumption.

 

[Dobbyisfree]

Oh yes good point. In fact, someone in AVSFORUM is using that to create a directional TR setup!

And, unfortunately, to summarise the findings for what Sub EQ HT does from AVS: (this example is for 4 subwoofers all corner placed)

- Using STANDARD bass setting, each subwoofer is time aligned and levelled to MLP, then they are all EQed together. You have mono bass for LFE and crossed-over bass and it the different responses of each subwoofer are effectively used to best gain the flattest response. (One of the whole reasons to have multiple subwoofers).

- Using DIRECTIONAL bass setting, each subwoofer is (as before) time aligned and levelled to MLP, but then each is individually EQed to MLP. You have directional bass for crossed-over bass. But for LFE, you are relying on the possible Audyssey correction of each of the subwoofers. And, as we all know, if a sub has for example some +9dB required correction peaks, it may not be happy a higher listening levels!

I'm not saying that some people won't like the DIRECTIONAL mode but I think we can all see the drawbacks here. A preferable DIRECTIONAL mode would individually EQ the subwoofers for crossed-over bass but still output LFE where they have all being corrected together.

Personally, I would only use the current DIRECTIONAL setting if I (a) had particularly good (very lucky?) response for each subwoofer and/or (b) if I had small floor speakers needing high crossovers, where bass was becoming audibly locational to the subwoofers.

 

[ban25]

And, unfortunately, to summarise the findings for what Sub EQ HT does from AVS: (this example is for 4 subwoofers all corner placed)

- Using STANDARD bass setting, each subwoofer is time aligned and levelled to MLP, then they are all EQed together. You have mono bass for LFE and crossed-over bass and it the different responses of each subwoofer are effectively used to best gain the flattest response. (One of the whole reasons to have multiple subwoofers).

- Using DIRECTIONAL bass setting, each subwoofer is (as before) time aligned and levelled to MLP, but then each is individually EQed to MLP. You have directional bass for crossed-over bass. But for LFE, you are relying on the possible Audyssey correction of each of the subwoofers. And, as we all know, if a sub has for example some +9dB required correction peaks, it may not be happy a higher listening levels!

I'm not saying that some people won't like the DIRECTIONAL mode but I think we can all see the drawbacks here. A preferable DIRECTIONAL mode would individually EQ the subwoofers for crossed-over bass but still output LFE where they have all being corrected together.

Personally, I would only use the current DIRECTIONAL setting if I (a) had particularly good (very lucky?) response for each subwoofer and/or (b) if I had small floor speakers needing high crossovers, where bass was becoming audibly locational to the subwoofers.

Audioholics has a good overview of the pros and cons of Directional Bass:

 

[Jack B]

Audioholics has a good overview of the pros and cons of Directional Bass:

Re external amplifiers: My subjective opinion is that having added a reasonably powerful 3-channel ATI amplifier for Left, Center, and Right on my (about to be replaced) Marantz SR-7011, there seems to be an increase in dynamic range, never a sense of strain...but it could all be in my head. So much of what we hear, or think we hear, is wishful thinking, and purveyors of exotic hardware make a lot of money by appealing to our emotions. Shiny things....
,

 

[ivo.f.doma]

I have a question for those who had TX-RZ50/VSX-LX505 and also Denon3800, 4800/Marantz Cinema50,40.
Which of these receivers is a better, more intuitive and sonically/technically better streamer? I'm mainly interested in Spotify, Amazon Music HD, internet radios and a home archive of recordings on a NAS server or USB stick.

 

[PGAMiami]

Does anyone have experience using the 12v trigger outputs on the x4800H? On mine they seem to be always on, even if in the setup I set every item to off.

 

[PGAMiami]

Recently installed an X4800H with DIRAC Full Range in my HT. The system is a 4.0.0 with TAD R1s in the front and Continuum kits (similar to LS35As) as rear surrounds. No center, subs, sides etc. TADs are bi-amped with 4 AHB2s driving them, and they are close to the corners, so they surely need the DIRAC EQ to bring the bass in line. Only using two amp channels in the Denon for the rear channels. System sounds amazingly good. I have a custom XLR AB switch and for music I use a Meitner MA3 DAC with an Audiolense convolution filter running on Roon. I was worried there would be a step down in quality with the Denon + DIRAC, but instead found it to be quite good, even compared with the Meitner and a more sophisticated convolution filter.