No tests yet let see how it performs!
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Denon AVR-X3800H Review
- Thread starter amirm
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I am not sure of that. When you compare the Cinema 60 to the 50 they add the Griffin Lite XP Share DSP Chip which ads features and I think better sound processing. When you spend the extra money on the 4800 would their not be extra components that help the sound processing?
HarmonicTHD
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The previous generation X3700 and X4700 were identical (measured also identically) but for the difference of a bit of power and Atmos. So therefore the assumption of voodooless has some merits.
Ironic that 3 YouTuber's get together to discus this. Amire said he didn't recommend! He did not say Don't Buy! So why the distortion? I you read the posts people have many opinions including that you probably won't hear the difference or distortion. This is a great open forum. Are these guy's independent or are they helping a manufacturer? If they are independent why worry about Amir's post?
That was my point too. Amir, like many other reviewers including many youtubers, routinely recommend certain products and would not recommend others. That's very different than telling people not to buy. I would think that it may be okay to tell people not to buy something that is unsafe, or has other serious concerns, but not over 87 vs 97 dB SINAD in one or two tests. There is nothing wrong with Amir's review for them to gang up..., but sometime people exaggerate or stretch things a little to get attention and in that sense, they appeared to have succeeded.
Rockman2 may be right about the DSP used between the X3800H and X4800H may be different. I have not seen any service manuals of the newer D+M models but have seen the ones for the SR6014, AVR-X3500H and AVR-X4500H. So I know the 6014 and the 3500 have the same DSP but the 4500 has a different one. The volume IC, DAC IC and opamps in the preamp/dac signal paths are the same, and the power amp sections are also the same/identical. Those who are interested can purchase the service manual or sign up/register on hifiengine.com.
Again, the newer models such as the 3700, 4700, 6015, 7015 are not available so we don't know but I do agree if the measurements of those models are not only practically the same on pre out/dac SINAD, but also IMD, SNR/DR, FR, linearity, 32 tone input, cross talk etc., then it is reasonable to say they (the Denon 3700, 4700, 6700, 8500 will sound very similar in controlled blind tests under the same load conditions as long as such conditions do not put them anywhere near the power amp's clipping point.
The same should apply to Marantz models as well, except that if digital inputs are used and contents with sampling rate at 44.1 and 48 kHz are used, some people with very good hearing and trained ears may hear some difference because Marantz chose to use the slow roll off dac deconstruction filters. For analog inputs in direct mode, it doesn't matter, Denon or Marantz from 3700, 6015 to 4700, 7015, will all sound the same. Those who hear the difference can say that and you cannot prove them wrong unless you get into the same room with them to do some blind tests.
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The below chart from Denon shows a different setup between the 2. The translation from French is roughly
"Dedicated devices instead of all-in-one ICs
further improve the sound.
Digital audio processing is done in 32-bit resolution."
However the second chart shows they share the same DSP.
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Hey all, hope you're enjoying your weekend. I am going to play a little devil's advocate here.
When someone says "I do not recommend this product" they are actually saying "I do not recommend that you buy this product" or basically "Do not buy".
In other words, if I ran into Amir on the street and asked... Hey, should I purchase the 3800? He would say "I do not recommend it" which mean he believes I should look else where and not purchase it.
Correct?
When someone says "I do not recommend this product" they are actually saying "I do not recommend that you buy this product" or basically "Do not buy".
In other words, if I ran into Amir on the street and asked... Hey, should I purchase the 3800? He would say "I do not recommend it" which mean he believes I should look else where and not purchase it.
Correct?
ArturoKiwi
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If you ask for an opinion, the answer will reflect his intentions.
It seems normal and right to me.
If Amirm wouldn't buy it for himself, why would he tell you: go and buy it?
And he didn't oblige you to buy something else, too.
So, what's the problem?
It seems normal and right to me.
If Amirm wouldn't buy it for himself, why would he tell you: go and buy it?
And he didn't oblige you to buy something else, too.
So, what's the problem?
rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Well at least we are back to discussing Denon's here .
According to avcaeser; the x3800, x4800, and A1H all share the same DSP:
Analog Devices ADSP-21593 Shark+
.According to avcaeser; the x3800, x4800, and A1H all share the same DSP:
Analog Devices ADSP-21593 Shark+
rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Don't buy it means don't buy it. Amir said "I cannot recommend.." so that means he cannot recommend. It is when you want to read into something not said, then "subject to interpretation" comes into effect. You could read into it and interpret Amir meant "Do not buy" as you are doing here, or someone can interpret it as "I cannot recommend it because....., but if you.....it is up to you. Or simply I cannot recommend it, but not telling you not to buy it because you may have good reason to buy it, it can go on an on..
To be sure what exactly Amir meant to say beyond the words he used, you would to ask him to elaborate, or just ask if he meant "Don't buy it".
To put words in his mouth without consulting him first is not quite right, even if the interpretation might seem reasonable.NeedForSpeed73
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It was top on my list to replace my Onkyo PR-RZ5100 when in March Dirac Live firmware will land. But provided I'd use it just as a preamp, I'm now a bit concerned about its DAC preformances. Most of all the low output level worries me, provided I have two Klipsch subwoofers that turn on automatically with signal-sense and I'd not like at all to end up with the subs shutting off during too silent scenes.
P.S.: is it true that to get the Dirac upgrade I'd have to pay for the license? According to the pictures I've seen around the unit already shows the "Dirac Live" logo, so, I was thinking that the licensing fee was included in the price and was just going to be added later because the firmware wasn't ready in time for the launch of the 2023 lineup.
P.S.: is it true that to get the Dirac upgrade I'd have to pay for the license? According to the pictures I've seen around the unit already shows the "Dirac Live" logo, so, I was thinking that the licensing fee was included in the price and was just going to be added later because the firmware wasn't ready in time for the launch of the 2023 lineup.
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I can see each of your reasonings, but, at risk of putting words in his mouth, here's my take...Don't buy it means don't buy it. Amir said "I cannot recommend.." so that means he cannot recommend. It is when you want to read into something not said, then "subject to interpretation" comes into effect. You could read into it and interpret Amir meant "Do not buy" as you are doing here, or someone can interpret it as "I cannot recommend it because....., but if you.....it is up to you. Or simply I cannot recommend it, but not telling you not to buy it because you may have good reason to buy it, it can go on an on..
To be sure what exactly Amir meant to say beyond the words he used, you would to ask him to elaborate, or just ask if he meant "Don't buy it".
There's nothing broken or wrong with the unit to deserve a "Do not buy", so I don't think he would say that. There's nothing that would justify it.
However, he doesn't want to reward a regression in measured DAC performance, so he can't personally recommend it. However he probably wouldn't stop you from doing so.
I don't think it matters if a reviewer says "Don't buy" or "I can't recommend it". I read reviews to get the authors opinion. I appreciate getting that opinion without sugar coating - no matter what it is. I can follow it or ignore it based on the details provided. The three guys in the "Don't Buy" Youtube video offer no new details or measurements. As far as I'm concerned they are simply hecklers who offer no value to my decision making.
It's much harder to post a bad review than a glowing one on a review site. It's easy to please the company in hopes they will support future review activity. Posting a poor review opens the reviewer to critics, be they vendors or owners. That's why it's rare. I appreciate ASR has the ability to disclose these details for the Denon 3800 and other gear. It's a service to the audio community that few other sites would or could tackle.
It's much harder to post a bad review than a glowing one on a review site. It's easy to please the company in hopes they will support future review activity. Posting a poor review opens the reviewer to critics, be they vendors or owners. That's why it's rare. I appreciate ASR has the ability to disclose these details for the Denon 3800 and other gear. It's a service to the audio community that few other sites would or could tackle.
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More processing will not fix a cheap DAC chip. D.D.S.C is just a marketing gimmick. I don’t see why the X3800 would not have it since it’s the same hardware. That leaves the AL processing of which it was never proven to actually do something useful…
The chart at post 1667 shows that the X3800 doe not have DDSC.
Exactly. We were talking about the "advantages" of the X4800.
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I think most of the advantages that matter to users will be in the form of features. There are several things the 4000 series can do that the 3000 series can not. Unfortunately you have to seriously research them because Denon does not make all of them clearly known. Maybe they expect a dealer to explain them, but you can buy these at many electronics stores.
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