Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[ArturoKiwi]

I think most of the advantages that matter to users will be in the form of features. There are several things the 4000 series can do that the 3000 series can not. Unfortunately you have to seriously research them because Denon does not make all of them clearly known. Maybe they expect a dealer to explain them, but you can buy these at many electronics stores.

Do you know someone? Could you tell us?

 

[mctron]

Do you know someone? Could you tell us?

Here is a start https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x4800h/denon-avr-x3800h/

 

[amper42]

Denon X4800H vs X3800H
4800 is built in Japan vs Vietnam
4800 includes monolithic amp design
4800 has 7 HDMI inputs as opposed to 6
4800 includes metal front panel vs plastic
4800 includes two line front display vs one line
4800 offers three 12v DC trigger outputs vs 1
4800 is 2lbs heavier (larger transformer)
4800 offers 125W @ 8ohms 2 channels driven vs 105W
4800 includes 32 bit D.D.S.C. Digital, Clock Jitter Reducer, AL32.
4800 offers three zones vs two.
4800 includes two composite video inputs.
4800 includes gold plated RCA jacks.
4800 offers a superior remote.

Can you hear the difference in a blind test? That would be difficult. But you may like the dual line display, extra triggers, and front metal plate?

 

[ArturoKiwi]

Denon X4800H vs X3800H
4800 is built in Japan vs Vietnam
4800 includes monolithic amp design
4800 has 7 HDMI inputs as opposed to 6
4800 includes metal front panel vs plastic
4800 includes two line front display vs one line
4800 offers three 12v DC trigger outputs vs 1
4800 is 2lbs heavier (larger transformer)
4800 offers 125W @ 8ohms 2 channels driven vs 105W
4800 includes 32 bit D.D.S.C. Digital, Clock Jitter Reducer, AL32.
4800 offers three zones vs two.
4800 includes two composite video inputs.
4800 includes gold plated RCA jacks.
4800 offers a superior remote.

Can you hear the difference in a blind test? That would be difficult. But you may like the dual line display, extra triggers, and front metal plate?

That's the point, for ASR user's quite all of these are inaudible

 

[rvsixer]

Denon X4800H vs X3800H
4800 is built in Japan vs Vietnam
4800 includes monolithic amp design
4800 has 7 HDMI inputs as opposed to 6
4800 includes metal front panel vs plastic
4800 includes two line front display vs one line
4800 offers three 12v DC trigger outputs vs 1
4800 is 2lbs heavier (larger transformer)
4800 offers 125W @ 8ohms 2 channels driven vs 105W
4800 includes 32 bit D.D.S.C. Digital, Clock Jitter Reducer, AL32.
4800 offers three zones vs two.
4800 includes two composite video inputs.
4800 includes gold plated RCA jacks.
4800 offers a superior remote.

Can you hear the difference in a blind test? That would be difficult. But you may like the dual line display, extra triggers, and front metal plate?

This is SO much better than those unresearched "hey the difference is just some more watts and a new label" posts here, good job .

 

[Chromatischism]

Denon X4800H vs X3800H
4800 is built in Japan vs Vietnam
4800 includes monolithic amp design
4800 has 7 HDMI inputs as opposed to 6
4800 includes metal front panel vs plastic
4800 includes two line front display vs one line
4800 offers three 12v DC trigger outputs vs 1
4800 is 2lbs heavier (larger transformer)
4800 offers 125W @ 8ohms 2 channels driven vs 105W
4800 includes 32 bit D.D.S.C. Digital, Clock Jitter Reducer, AL32.
4800 offers three zones vs two.
4800 includes two composite video inputs.
4800 includes gold plated RCA jacks.
4800 offers a superior remote.

Can you hear the difference in a blind test? That would be difficult. But you may like the dual line display, extra triggers, and front metal plate?

Thanks. In addition, there are differences in things like "can I do X to Zone 2 while doing Y in Zone 1", how many speakers can be used in upmixing modes, differences in usability due to the vastly different remote controls, etc. Hard to list them all here but JD Smoothie's posts at AVS were very informative.

 

[Sancus]

It still really sucks that they removed the front HDMI port on the 4800.

 

[ban25]

It still really sucks that they removed the front HDMI port on the 4800.

It is of course convenient in a pinch, but I never use front-ports due to aesthetics and cable routing, so especially if there's a significant cost to each port vis-a-vie HDMI 2.1, I prefer having them all in the back.

 

[Rockman2]

The below chart from Denon shows a different setup between the 2. The translation from French is roughly
"Dedicated devices instead of all-in-one ICs
further improve the sound.
Digital audio processing is done in 32-bit resolution."

However the second chart shows they share the same DSP.



View attachment 257361

View attachment 257363

Very cool. Do you have this for Marantz?

 

[Chromatischism]

Those of us who do a lot of work in REW use that front port.

 

[GalZohar]

It is of course convenient in a pinch, but I never use front-ports due to aesthetics and cable routing, so especially if there's a significant cost to each port vis-a-vie HDMI 2.1, I prefer having them all in the back.

The front is mostly for REW. Connecting a laptop to a rear port is a nightmare (major nightmare in some setups), and leaving the laptop cable always connected and dangling around when not in use - is even worse for aesthetics. I wonder how much Denon actually saved by removing it and/or not having it also on the 3xxx...

 

[maty]

DENON AVC-X3800H
[Polish] https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/wzmacniacze-stereo/3585-denon-avc-x3800h

to English:

DENON AVC-X3800H

Chociaż tempo wymian amplitunerów zwolniło, Denon nie odpuszcza. W ramach podstawowej serii X mają się pojawić trzy modele – AVR-X2800H, ...

audio-com-pl.translate.goog

 

[peng]

I said that before and will say it again, take that site's measurements as a guide only but not to conclude one is better than the other just because it shows a difference of 0.02% at higher output to 0.5% at the lowest output level. I have read tons of their THD+N/Power graphs and the numbers don't correlate with what one would expect from the DUTs based on specs and prices. That doesn't mean they are not accurate, but there could be other reasons that may or may not matter.

Going by those graphs, the cleanest D+M AVRs, of all those they measured, are the Marantz SR6011 and Denon AVR-X1700H (excluding the likes of the X8500H, the flagship class ones).

Both have better numbers than the AVR-X3800H, especially at the below 1 W level where it arguably is more important for perceived sound quality, though we can also argue that they are all low enough in terms of threshold of audibility.

(I couldn't find measurements there for the AVR-X3700H, X4700H etc., may be because they know Amir measured those already (just kidding.)

Hard to believe the X1700H beat almost all other Denon and Marantz AVR except a couple, but that's what their measurements show:

DENON AVR-X1700H

Denon rozpoczął ten sezon właśnie amplitunerem AVR-X1700, występującym w dwóch wersjach – podstawowej AVR-X1700H (z tunerem FM) i AVR-X1700H ...

audio-com-pl.translate.goog

 

[edconline]

First time poster here, actually just discovered this forum while researching a new AVR to replace my Yamaha RXA-3060, which no longer meets my needs for HDMI. I was fairly set on Arcam after reading all about their stuff - until I saw the price tag, and remembered my last name wasn't Musk. Lo and behold, along comes the Denon X3800. First glance, looks like literally the perfect receiver for me. I'm just starting to learn more about room correction (I've always used YPAO, but really had no idea what it was doing) and so the idea of having not one, but eventually TWO room correction offerings on a receiver sounded incredible to me. I also have 3 subwoofers, soon to be 4, and having an independent output for each, with the possible (likely) ability to use upcoming correction on those too?! Could it get any better! I currently need at least 2 HDMI 2.1 ports for gaming, and more is always better, so that part appeared to be covered off also. Finally, I'm in the process of upgrading my speakers right now, and plan to offload amplification to some monoprice monolith amps, so I could use preamp mode and disable selective outputs on the Denon too. The more I read about this receiver, the more sold I was.

Enter this thread. I spent way too long reading the entirety of it (probably should have slept more before work today), but I refuse to be the person who jumps onto a topic without having read EVERY post that came before. (Which doesn't bode well for me once I delve into MSO/Mini DSP for managing my subs, which I also had no idea about before last night, and now assume is essentially a must-do, in the absence of DLBC.)

First off, I sincerely appreciate the time and effort that went into doing these tests and measurements, and I LOVE seeing objective data published that isn't provided by the OEM. Even if it was, third party testing always holds more weight with me. I also understand both sides of the arguments with respect to the DAC being a step backwards, if that even matters due to audibility, etc. A decrease in objective overall performance combined with a probably untimely price increase is going to be a tough pill to swallow for *anyone*, IMHO. That all said - I still believe that the unit offers incredible value, and while I am not in need of a new AVR at this exact moment - (I will likely be waiting until dirac/DLBC come online with this unit before making a final purchase decision) - I would have zero hesitation pulling the trigger on a 3800H, at MSRP, having all the information I do now. It looks like it meets my requirements better than any other *current* product in this price range, and will potentially meet them even more so once the aforementioned features become available.

I do feel compelled to share my bewilderment at a couple of the overarching sentiments I came across reading this entire thread however. The first, is the constant dwelling and harping on the price, or rather chiefly, price increase, (no doubt made more upsetting to people by the way certain sections tested). Is inflation throughout COVID, and especially the second half of 2022 not as bad in other parts of the world as it is here in Canada? If what I'm reading is correct, and the predecessor used to be $1299 USD with a price increase to $1599 USD near the EOL for it, and this unit comes in at $1699 USD - it's incredible that Denon was able to keep the price increase so low in this parts shortage/manufacturing climate. Incredible. I take it no one that thinks that price increase is bad has seen the increases across the rest of the industry? (The current Yamaha flagship A8A is double what I paid for my flagship 3060 when it released. Double. Not a directly comparable receiver features-wise, but then nor are the X3700 and X3800). Nevermind the price of automobiles, food, you name it. Many things here are up 30-50, even 80%! Now I'm not (usually) in the habit of simping for big-corporations (Unless they are named Apple, Starbucks or Tesla) but I did not see one single shred of evidence here that Denon wasn't forced to increase the price due to material, shipping, manufacturing costs hits they took. For all we know, they are making less profit on the X3800 than on the old X3700 with the old DAC, even with the price increase. Everyone is just assuming that Denon did it to make more money, on the back of using inferior components to boot. A ridiculous assumption it would seem, in this market, with zero proof I could find. Anyways, just surprised me to say the least. I still say for the advertised price it packs in WAY more features and capabilities than I'd have ever expected.

The other (slightly less) baffling thing was the number of posters who seem to think that despite the (in the case of DLBC very) lengthy delay before the DIRAC features are released, that makes them vaporware. With some people even seeming to indicate they'd likely never arrive. I have definitely seen companies over promise and under deliver before, in this exact segment too. (All too often with stuff like Dolby Vision via SW update, other HDMI features, etc.) However, to me anyways, it seems like this family of receivers was designed from inception to be used with DLBC/Dirac. One only needs to look at what they did with the subwoofer outputs. Add that to the two-way messaging from both Dirac and Denon that it's coming, and it seems to be basically cemented. With failures in the past, you'd generally only see the manufacturer making promises, not both parties with the same stated goals, timeline and intent. So while to a degree I understand the pessimism, I think it is a VERY safe bet that the stated capabilities will be coming to the unit, in due course. (Not for nothing though, SRC could actually be worth waiting for it seems like, or moving further up the line to get it.)

Anyways, appreciate all the contributors, and I'm excited to have found this forum and to get to learning a lot from everyone here!

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

[CUT]
The other (slightly less) baffling thing was the number of posters who seem to think that despite the (in the case of DLBC very) lengthy delay before the DIRAC features are released, that makes them vaporware. With some people even seeming to indicate they'd likely never arrive. I have definitely seen companies over promise and under deliver before, in this exact segment too. (All too often with stuff like Dolby Vision via SW update, other HDMI features, etc.) However, to me anyways, it seems like this family of receivers was designed from inception to be used with DLBC/Dirac. One only needs to look at what they did with the subwoofer outputs. Add that to the two-way messaging from both Dirac and Denon that it's coming, and it seems to be basically cemented. With failures in the past, you'd generally only see the manufacturer making promises, not both parties with the same stated goals, timeline and intent. So while to a degree I understand the pessimism, I think it is a VERY safe bet that the stated capabilities will be coming to the unit, in due course. (Not for nothing though, SRC could actually be worth waiting for it seems like, or moving further up the line to get it.)

Anyways, appreciate all the contributors, and I'm excited to have found this forum and to get to learning a lot from everyone here!

Knowing how Dirac licensing works I highly doubt that receivers in the price range of the 3800 (and its Marantz sibling) will get anything more than basic Dirac Live (as it happens with Onkyos). I'd be very suprised if they'd get Bass Control for single subwoofer, I would bet money that they'll never get DLBC for multiple subs that is available only for top of the line products from most expensive brands (and you must also pay 500$/€ for it).
Look at the Arcam lineup: on the "cheaper" models you can't get multisub, only single-sub DLBC; to have multi-sub available you must go AVR31 (8000$/€) and up. No way Dirac will let it slip down to sub-2000$/€ devices.
Anyways, I've grown a little experience with Multi Sub Optimizer and feeding the filters it generates in a MiniDSP 2x4HD (a 200$/€ device) you can get great results in smoothing positional variations and then let Dirac (or whatever other room correction system) handle the "virtual-single subwoofer" saving a looot of money.

 

[voodooless]

I'd be very suprised if they'd get Bass Control for single subwoofer, I would bet money that they'll never get DLBC for multiple subs that is available only for top of the line products from most expensive brands (and you must also pay more than 500$/€ for it).

How much do you want to bet? It’s $499 for all other AVR’s, why would it de different for Denon or Marantz?

 

[Chromatischism]

Do you think they added 2 extra sub outputs for MiniDSP users, then? No, because you only use one for that.

That just leaves Audyssey. Unless they're working on new functionality, I'm pretty sure the 4 outputs are intended for Dirac (but I hope Audyssey intends to use them).

 

[edconline]

Knowing how Dirac licensing works I highly doubt that receivers in the price range of the 3800 (and its Marantz sibling) will get anything more than basic Dirac Live (as it happens with Onkyos). I'd be very suprised if they'd get Bass Control for single subwoofer, I would bet money that they'll never get DLBC for multiple subs that is available only for top of the line products from most expensive brands (and you must also pay more than 500$/€ for it).
Look at the Arcam lineup: on the "cheaper" models you can't get multisub, only single-sub DLBC; to have multi-sub available you must go AVR31 (8000$/€) and up. No way Dirac will let it slip down to sub-2000$/€ devices.
Anyways, I've grown a little experience with Multi Sub Optimizer and feeding the filters it generates in a MiniDSP 2x4HD (a 200$/€ device) you can get great results in smoothing positional variations and then let Dirac (or whatever other room correction system) handle the "virtual-single subwoofer" saving a looot of money.

I see how someone could come to that conclusion, but I respectfully (and vehemently) disagree. As was mentioned above, why add the 4 individual sub outputs? All signs point to Denon (and co) being very committed to this partnership with Dirac. And there are already (albeit unconfirmed/cited) several “sources” at both companies that have appeared to all but confirm DLBC is coming to these models, *eventually*.

All that aside though, perhaps my biggest issue with your logic is using the price argument. Money is, in fact the primary reason Dirac would want to bring the feature to as many AVR’s as possible that meet their requirements. As a licenced product, where the licence is a fixed fee, that’s how they make money… they make no extra money based off the cost of the device implementing their software. The reason (IMO) DLBC is currently only available/confirmed on super high $$$ AVR’s is that until recently, it (Dirac) was a super niche offering. And the ultra expensive, niche brands often cater to people seeking that bleeding edge tech, and implement it first.

What Denon is doing here is opening up a huge new customer base/segment for Dirac to make potentially a ton of money off of. No way they are not looking to capitalize on that.

The only way I could see what you’re saying becoming a factor is if Arcam and the other premiere brands currently offering the “upgraded” Dirac features have an exclusivity deal with Dirac on them - all signs point to that not likely being the case, and several signs directly indicate otherwise.

Just my 0.02 (which is about all the money I’d bet on it either way, as I am a humble public servant, and I need that 2 cents to pay for these upgrades).

 

[peng]

I see how someone could come to that conclusion, but I respectfully (and vehemently) disagree. As was mentioned above, why add the 4 individual sub outputs? All signs point to Denon (and co) being very committed to this partnership with Dirac. And there are already (albeit unconfirmed/cited) several “sources” at both companies that have appeared to all but confirm DLBC is coming to these models, *eventually*.

All that aside though, perhaps my biggest issue with your logic is using the price argument. Money is, in fact the primary reason Dirac would want to bring the feature to as many AVR’s as possible that meet their requirements. As a licenced product, where the licence is a fixed fee, that’s how they make money… they make no extra money based off the cost of the device implementing their software. The reason (IMO) DLBC is currently only available/confirmed on super high $$$ AVR’s is that until recently, it (Dirac) was a super niche offering. And the ultra expensive, niche brands often cater to people seeking that bleeding edge tech, and implement it first.

What Denon is doing here is opening up a huge new customer base/segment for Dirac to make potentially a ton of money off of. No way they are not looking to capitalize on that.

The only way I could see what you’re saying becoming a factor is if Arcam and the other premiere brands currently offering the “upgraded” Dirac features have an exclusivity deal with Dirac on them - all signs point to that not likely being the case, and several signs directly indicate otherwise.

Just my 0.02 (which is about all the money I’d bet on it either way, as I am a humble public servant, and I need that 2 cents to pay for these upgrades).

If you don't want to wait, you can use Audyssey with the app and get very good results in the 15 to 200 Hz range with using mso/minidsp. Lots of people have done that, mso/minidsp may be great but I wouldn't say it is a must.

 

[Sancus]

Knowing how Dirac licensing works I highly doubt that receivers in the price range of the 3800 (and its Marantz sibling) will get anything more than basic Dirac Live (as it happens with Onkyos). I'd be very suprised if they'd get Bass Control for single subwoofer, I would bet money that they'll never get DLBC for multiple subs that is available only for top of the line products from most expensive brands (and you must also pay more than 500$/€ for it).

They're not getting DLBC until 2024 at the earliest. By that time, those high-end processors will have moved on to Active Room Treatment. Once ART is available, DLBC stops being special. While the timeline is not concrete yet, it's not like it's a rumor or something. They told Audioholics directly. You can say maybe they're mistaken or they'll change their minds or whatever, but any manufacturer can do that.