Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[techsamurai]

Not one measurement is offered by that due in any way or shape, nor any blind testing, just the usual audiophool language.

That dude is writing things like the following so he can be safely ignored: "Previously, using the copper chassis also give the bass more tight and impactful. This difference is recognize easily because in this aluminum chassis, I easily spot the missing of the bass nuance from this amplifier."

Just out of curiosity, how do you measure bass nuance?

 

[peng]

Not one measurement is offered by that due in any way or shape, nor any blind testing, just the usual audiophool language.

That dude is writing things like the following so he can be safely ignored: "Previously, using the copper chassis also give the bass more tight and impactful. This difference is recognize easily because in this aluminum chassis, I easily spot the missing of the bass nuance from this amplifier."

Agreed, I would also add that regarding the SR8002, or the current flagship SR8015, the money spent on copper plates could been spent on better output devices, and or adding a few XLR I/Os such as what Yamaha had done on their flagship class AVR.

But by their extensive use of the copper work, it probably will work better in terms of sound quality perceived by some, thanks to Placebo.

 

[Trell]

I had read many of those interesting articles in the past. Most of those are great in term of build quality. Also can be effective in minimizing electromagnetic interferences if done well.

In terms of measrable performance gains though, they often could not, and didn't make up for the difference in performance versus using stronger power supplies of decent quality, opamps, adc, dacs, volume controls, power amp sections, heatsinks dsps etc.

Just compare the av8805 vs sr6014, avr-x3600h measurement, you can see the effects, or lack off. There are plenty of measurment that support money can better spent on things that matter more, for more measurable audio performace.

I am only commenting on objective facts, not sound quality performace cited by people in sighted, not tightly controlled AB comparison listening tests.

They obviously have spent quite a bit of their own time as well as expenses to do this, so why are they so hesitant to test/measure what they're are doing? If for nothing else to catch any mistakes they've done or bad components.

 

[peng]

They obviously have spent quite a bit of their own time as well as expenses to do this, so why are they so hesitant to test/measure what they're are doing? If for nothing else to catch any mistakes they've done or bad components.

A case of engineering team vs talented marketing teams.

 

[techsamurai]

This is a fascinating read

How to understand speaker measurements — and why they matter

Ever wanted to know how to understand a speaker's frequency response? Here's our comprehensive guide to correlate your listening impressions with the data.

thenextweb.com

And this chart is very cool:

 

[01svtL]

This is a fascinating read

How to understand speaker measurements — and why they matter

Ever wanted to know how to understand a speaker's frequency response? Here's our comprehensive guide to correlate your listening impressions with the data.

thenextweb.com

And this chart is very cool:

So in addition to the bass boost in the region <40, a small bump in the 150-175hz region would be good for a tight yet emphasized kick drum boost? Thinking about double bass drums and trying to keep the notes from running together in a fast double kick drum scenario, like in metal music.

 

[techsamurai]

This chart's also amazing,

So in addition to the bass boost in the region <40, a small bump in the 150-175hz region would be good for a tight yet emphasized kick drum boost? Thinking about double bass drums and trying to keep the notes from running together in a fast double kick drum scenario, like in metal music.

Does the kick drum extend under 50hz?

I'm a bit skeptical about the lower extension of these instruments.

When I was setting my crossovers, I noticed that as I dropped from 120hz to 100hz to 80hz to 60hz, I was listening to Clint Eastwood's intro to the song Gran Torino and his voice just sounded so different as I was going down. I really think I could hear a difference between 100 and 80 and detected differences between 80 and 60.

 

[ooheadsoo]

You will hear from rumble from an acoustic bass in person, for example, but I have no clue what the mix engineer is targeting. I've never heard speakers produce the feeling of being in front of acoustic instruments with bass. Also, maybe unless you have a grand piano bosendorfer or something, that fundamental at the bottom end is going to be pretty weak. And if you were going by "the chart" for an amplified instrument like an electric bass guitar, well that really all depends on the signal chain and amplifier.

Yeah, take those charts with a grain of salt.

 

[techsamurai]

This chart's also amazing,

Does the kick drum extend under 50hz?

I'm a bit skeptical about the lower extension of these instruments.

When I was setting my crossovers, I noticed that as I dropped from 120hz to 100hz to 80hz to 60hz, I was listening to Clint Eastwood's intro to the song Gran Torino and his voice just sounded so different as I was going down. I really think I could hear a difference between 100 and 80 and detected differences between 80 and 60.

It turns out I was right. Voices start at 80hz??? I thought it was bass... I swear to God Clint Eastwood's voice drops under 80hz in the song.

Voice frequency - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fundamental frequency​

The voiced speech of a typical adult male will have a fundamental frequency from 85 to 155 Hz, and that of a typical adult female from 165 to 255 Hz.[3]

 

[EWL5]

This chart's also amazing,

Does the kick drum extend under 50hz?

I'm a bit skeptical about the lower extension of these instruments.

When I was setting my crossovers, I noticed that as I dropped from 120hz to 100hz to 80hz to 60hz, I was listening to Clint Eastwood's intro to the song Gran Torino and his voice just sounded so different as I was going down. I really think I could hear a difference between 100 and 80 and detected differences between 80 and 60.

It's been said cello mimics the human voice fairly well and now I know why it's one of my favorite instruments!

 

[Bren Derlin]

So in addition to the bass boost in the region <40, a small bump in the 150-175hz region would be good for a tight yet emphasized kick drum boost? Thinking about double bass drums and trying to keep the notes from running together in a fast double kick drum scenario, like in metal music.

I have heard TONS of speakers, from all ranges - and in college, especially those in which people here would consider pretty crappy speakers, and I've never heard double-pedal kick drums "running together" - where it's indistinguishable. Generally, if you're having issues hearing the kick drum, it's likely from poor tuning between a small kick drum and large floor toms, and/or bad mixing of the kick drum and bass line.

 

[Phidel]

I have a question, I have the Denon 3800H and a PC contected to a TV with HDMI ARC, if connect the PC directly to the receiver I loss the HDMI ARC function. I must to connect the PC to the TV and other HDMI wire to the receiver to get HDMI ARC functions, why?

 

[tjcinnamon]

For measurements: what SINAD results in pre-amp mode but NOT Pure/Direct modes (i.e. pre-amp + correction) ? Curious for science because it seems that all of the correction is in the digital domain, I’m not sure how that would impact SINAD.

This is based on a thread I posted earlier but seems relevant to this review.

 

[Marc v E]

For measurements: what SINAD results in pre-amp mode but NOT Pure/Direct modes (i.e. pre-amp + correction) ? Curious for science because it seems that all of the correction is in the digital domain, I’m not sure how that would impact SINAD.

This is based on a thread I posted earlier but seems relevant to this review.

Iirc because Pure Direct measures significantly worse. If you search the forum's reviews, you'll find it.

 

[tjcinnamon]

Iirc because Pure Direct measures significantly worse. If you search the forum's reviews, you'll find it.

It does, it’s 10dB less. I’m just curious of the impact with HDMI -> correction -> DAC performance. Seems like a very common path for AVR’s.

I’m most interested in pre-amp mode for that chain.

I’d take, not even for this AVR but just a historical measurement.

 

[Marc v E]

It does, it’s 10dB less. I’m just curious of the impact with HDMI -> correction -> DAC performance. Seems like a very common path for AVR’s.

I’m most interested in pre-amp mode for that chain.

I’d take, not even for this AVR but just a historical measurement.

Ah I see. Yes, I'm curious too. I guess we'll have to wait until someone with the right measurement equipment will give it a try.

My best guess is that AVRs are limited like the minidsp by hardware. Based on the results in the other thread I would expect Sinad to be quite a bit lower when eq is on. However, in real world listening the benefits of eq probably outweighs the negative by quite a margin (imo).

 

[tjcinnamon]

Ah I see. Yes, I'm curious too. I guess we'll have to wait until someone with the right measurement equipment will give it a try.

My best guess is that AVRs are limited like the minidsp by hardware. Based on the results in the other thread I would expect Sinad to be quite a bit lower when eq is on. However, in real world listening the benefits of eq probably outweighs the negative by quite a margin (imo).

Given it’s popularity, I’m surprised this signal path hasn’t been measured at least once.

Agree that room correction is critically important after room treatments of course.

 

[Phidel]

I have a question, I have the Denon 3800H and a PC contected to a TV with HDMI ARC, if connect the PC directly to the receiver I loss the HDMI ARC function. I must to connect the PC to the TV and other HDMI wire to the receiver to get HDMI ARC functions, why?

Please, could anyone help me? Thanks

 

[Joffy1780]

So connecting your PC via HDMI to any of the Denon's HDMI inputs then disables ARC from returning the audio from your TV to the receiver?

Please, could anyone help me? Thanks

 

[RF Air]

Please, could anyone help me? Thanks

I am not sure, but I would recommend that you investigate HDCP by reviewing searches. Copyright protection could be causing the issue.