Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[rvsixer]

Is there anything else I am missing?

Yes. Full preamp disconnects, tactile transducer support, supposed DLBC forthcoming, etc etc etc. Hint start with the Masimo videos posted here, the user manuals, several posts here citing the differences, etc. If you can deal with the SINAD "issue", for the extra $300 the 3800 has a lot more features than 3700.

If all you are after is better sub response...imo at least one more sub and proper placement, and a miniDSP/MSO etc. will help much more than a new AVR.

 

[Shardak]

Yes. Full preamp disconnects, tactile transducer support, supposed DBLC forthcoming, etc etc etc. Hint start with the Masimo videos posted here, the user manuals, several posts here citing the differences, etc. If you can deal with the SINAD "issue", for the extra $300 the 3800 has a lot more features than 3700.

If all you are after is better sub response...imo at least one more sub and proper placement, and a miniDSP/MSO etc. will help much more than a new AVR.

That video was very helpful, thanks for the tip.

It seems there are a number of minor changes, none of which I value. I have ordered a refurb 3700, and may add a miniDSP 2x4HD to the system if the built-in room correction doesn't allow me to tame the 50-60hz peak I am seeing today.

 

[ban25]

Yes. Full preamp disconnects, tactile transducer support, supposed DBLC forthcoming, etc etc etc. Hint start with the Masimo videos posted here, the user manuals, several posts here citing the differences, etc. If you can deal with the SINAD "issue", for the extra $300 the 3800 has a lot more features than 3700.

If all you are after is better sub response...imo at least one more sub and proper placement, and a miniDSP/MSO etc. will help much more than a new AVR.

Plus 6 HDMI 2.1 inputs instead of only 1, future upgradability to DLBC next year, a 1080p OSD instead of the janky old 480p one...

 

[GalZohar]

The DLBC is the major difference, once it is supported. The rest are only good if you really need them. DLBC is good for anyone with a sub.

 

[rvsixer]

Plus 6 HDMI 2.1 inputs instead of only 1, future upgradability to DLBC next year, a 1080p OSD instead of the janky old 480p one...

Yea that was what the etc etc etc, look at the videos, read the manual was for. Also there's quite a few more additions than you listed, and I already mentioned the DLBC maybe coming.

 

[rvsixer]

That video was very helpful, thanks for the tip.

It seems there are a number of minor changes, none of which I value. I have ordered a refurb 3700, and may add a miniDSP 2x4HD to the system if the built-in room correction doesn't allow me to tame the 50-60hz peak I am seeing today.

Good deal, yes if you don't need the extra features they are minor, if you do value them they are pretty major (Dirac, clean preout outputs all around not just mains, etc.).
I wager at least one extra sub, and both the LP and (all) transducers properly located will solve the likely room mode issue.

 

[EWL5]

Yes. Full preamp disconnects, tactile transducer support, supposed DLBC forthcoming, etc etc etc. Hint start with the Masimo videos posted here, the user manuals, several posts here citing the differences, etc. If you can deal with the SINAD "issue", for the extra $300 the 3800 has a lot more features than 3700.

If all you are after is better sub response...imo at least one more sub and proper placement, and a miniDSP/MSO etc. will help much more than a new AVR.

Unless I'm mistaken, the SINAD "issue" only exists if you are able to get your hands on a pre-Spring '21 3700 model (i.e. used 3700 market). Brand new 3700 models should have nearly identical "bad" SINAD results to the 3800 models, no?

 

[rvsixer]

Unless I'm mistaken, the SINAD "issue" only exists if you are able to get your hands on a pre-Spring '21 3700 model (i.e. used 3700 market). Brand new 3700 models should have nearly identical "bad" SINAD results to the 3800 models, no?

Yes indeed. He bought a refurb 3700, flip a coin as to which SINAD he gets .

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Yes indeed. He bought a refurb 3700, flip a coin as to which SINAD he gets .

Won't be able to hear the difference.

 

[wez68]

So having `gone from a 3600 to a 3800 , I can say that the 3800 100% doesn't sound worse than the 3600 it replaced, sounds superb to me

 

[Shardak]

So having `gone from a 3600 to a 3800 , I can say that the 3800 100% doesn't sound worse than the 3600 it replaced, sounds superb to me

Does the 3800 sound better though? Or pretty much the same?

 

[wez68]

Does the 3800 sound better though? Or pretty much the same?

To me it sounds a little better ,more detailed and a better soundstage ,but obviously this could easily be down to a better calibration !
I got a great deal on it ,if that deal had not materialised ,I would still have the 3600

 

[bananenmann]

Hello I'm new here and not expereanced in the technical know-how of home cinema receivers. I planned to buy the new 3800 unless I've found the rewiev on this site. Now I'm a little uncertain because of that SINAD "Issue". I have noticed, that the 6700 is far better in the ranking (I know, much more expensive as well), but it is marked as "updated". what does this mean? Was there a software update, which improved the SINAD measerment of this receiver? Is there a chance, that the 3800 will improve it's ranking with a future software update as well? Or is this a hardware limitation and can't be "fixed" with software? Thanx in advance

 

[dlaloum]

Hello I'm new here and not expereanced in the technical know-how of home cinema receivers. I planned to buy the new 3800 unless I've found the rewiev on this site. Now I'm a little uncertain because of that SINAD "Issue". I have noticed, that the 6700 is far better in the ranking (I know, much more expensive as well), but it is marked as "updated". what does this mean? Was there a software update, which improved the SINAD measerment of this receiver? Is there a chance, that the 3800 will improve it's ranking with a future software update as well? Or is this a hardware limitation and can't be "fixed" with software? Thanx in advance

The SINAD is fixed in hardware... so it is what it is!

The 700 series has only Audyssey Room EQ... the 800 series has optional Dirac (at additional cost) - many of us (but not all) find Dirac to be noticeably better than Audyssey, but you need to consider the additional cost....

The X6700 is right now excellent value due to being a runout model of the previous generation.... if you are happy with Audyssey (and many people are!) - that is an excellent AVR potentially at an excellent price. - The Denon & Marantz pricing for each category of AVR went up substantially with the release of the new series, so the X6800 when it eventually comes out, will be substantially more expensive than either the current X4800 or the previous X6700.

In terms of the SINAD measurements - they are all below the threshold of audibility - which is to say you are highly unlikely to be able to tell the difference between them based on SINAD. The difference in the amplifiers (the X6 being more powerful) is more likely to be audible, if you have difficult/low impedance speakers... as is the differences in RoomEQ systems.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hello I'm new here and not expereanced in the technical know-how of home cinema receivers. I planned to buy the new 3800 unless I've found the rewiev on this site. Now I'm a little uncertain because of that SINAD "Issue". I have noticed, that the 6700 is far better in the ranking (I know, much more expensive as well), but it is marked as "updated". what does this mean? Was there a software update, which improved the SINAD measerment of this receiver? Is there a chance, that the 3800 will improve it's ranking with a future software update as well? Or is this a hardware limitation and can't be "fixed" with software? Thanx in advance

As of now, I’d say go with the 6700. The jury might still be out but so far Dirac is objectively worse in its Denon implementation.

Post in thread 'Sound United U 30 Update (Denon X3800H / X4800H / A1H, Marantz Cinema 50 / 40 / AV 10)'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...marantz-cinema-50-40-av-10.42944/post-1522379

However there might be a bug. But better? Personally I haven’t seen actual facts where it was better, mostly subjective anecdotes.

 

[bananenmann]

Thank you both for your help. Unfortunately for me there are no alternatives for the 3800, because I actually need 4-5 fully compatible HDMI 2.1 inputs. (PS5, PC, Nvidia Shield - and a few optional ones I would like to have free for a possible 4K Bluray player etc.). Besides, the other devices are too expensive for me. Even the 3800 I already feel is extremely expensive, but it's the only one that supports ALL new sound- and Video formats AND has so many HDMI 2.1 inputs. Dirac is totally indifferent to me, I do not need it. I have anyway only a mini living room with 20 square meters and an old Canton 5.1 speaker set. In addition, I bought 2 additional satellite boxes, which now hang on the ceiling. So I have a 5.1.2 (top middle) configuration. I surely pay attention to good sound, but then I also think that I am not an audophile expert who will hear the difference. Normally I would have even kept my Onkyo TR-555, but it doesn't support 8K or 4K @ 120 Hz and I need that because my stupid new high-tech 4K Samsung TV (2021) doesn't offer true passthrough when using eARC.

 

[peng]

Thank you both for your help. Unfortunately for me there are no alternatives for the 3800, because I actually need 4-5 fully compatible HDMI 2.1 inputs. (PS5, PC, Nvidia Shield - and a few optional ones I would like to have free for a possible 4K Bluray player etc.). Besides, the other devices are too expensive for me. Even the 3800 I already feel is extremely expensive, but it's the only one that supports ALL new sound- and Video formats AND has so many HDMI 2.1 inputs. Dirac is totally indifferent to me, I do not need it. I have anyway only a mini living room with 20 square meters and an old Canton 5.1 speaker set. In addition, I bought 2 additional satellite boxes, which now hang on the ceiling. So I have a 5.1.2 (top middle) configuration. I surely pay attention to good sound, but then I also think that I am not an audophile expert who will hear the difference. Normally I would have even kept my Onkyo TR-555, but it doesn't support 8K or 4K @ 120 Hz and I need that because my stupid new high-tech 4K Samsung TV (2021) doesn't offer true passthrough when using eARC.

If you don't need the additional channels, I see no reason to go with the 6700. For those keen on a better DAC, they now all have the TI chip, unless you go for the A1H or AV10. The 4800 is one model years newer and after watching the Masimo video, it seems to me it's overall build quality, in terms of things that matter, is now in par with that of the 6700, so it has the net benefit of having a more up to date HDMI board, upgraded DSP chip and upgradable to Dirac Live. The reported bug about the maximum delay limits is easily fixable via FW (based on Onkyo's).

 

[Hobolicious]

For those of you running multiple subwoofers on either 3800, 4800 or A1H, do you feel like a MiniDSP or similar is necessary, or does Audyssey/Dirac work well for multi-subwoofer setups (I know DLBC is expected further down the road for Dirac which would definitely make a MiniDSP obsolete)?

For reference I will be running a 7.2.4 setup with the following speakers/hardware:

Front speakers: Dali Epicon 6
Center speaker: Dali Epicon Vokal
Surround speakers: 4 x Dali Rubicon LCR
Atmos speakers: 4 x Dali Phantom K-80
Subwoofers: 2 x B&W DB1 (hopefully four down the line)
Receiver: Denon X3800H
Power amplifier: Classe Audio CA-5200 (for the Front and Center speakers)

 

[peng]

For those of you running multiple subwoofers on either 3800, 4800 or A1H, do you feel like a MiniDSP or similar is necessary, or does Audyssey/Dirac work well for multi-subwoofer setups (I know DLBC is expected further down the road for Dirac which would definitely make a MiniDSP obsolete)?

For reference I will be running a 7.2.4 setup with the following speakers/hardware:

Front speakers: Dali Epicon 6
Center speaker: Dali Epicon Vokal
Surround speakers: 4 x Dali Rubicon LCR
Atmos speakers: 4 x Dali Phantom K-80
Subwoofers: 2 x B&W DB1 (hopefully four down the line)
Receiver: Denon X3800H
Power amplifier: Classe Audio CA-5200 (for the Front and Center speakers)

For two subs, especially if are of the same model and more or less equidistance, in my opinion the minidsp is not necessary, could potentially make things worse. I tried it, had spent hours on trial and error trying to get the best FR curve. Tried it in two rooms, on the FL/FR with 1 and 2 subs, there are some minor/negligible improvements on paper but all based on REW measurements with mic in the main position only. To me, nothing I experienced that could justify the additional interconnects, another heater (though a tiny one), and potentially limited by the mini's max 2V RCA output (according to specs). Almost sold me for cheap but potential buyer is in the US, didn't seem like going through the trouble shipping overseas in the end, so now I am keeping it for use as an active crossover for one of my two channel system that I am using Dirac two channel version.

No doubt the mindsp is a useful device but it is overrated, for use with multichannel system that already has Audyssey or Dirac Live, that's just my opinion and I know users will never be convinced because they like what they heard with the mini (to me, that's Placebo/bias at work, subjective at best...) Those who use mso with it may be able to show some objective results though, my comments are based on using it with REW filters, or just manual tweaks only.

 

[Hobolicious]

For two subs, especially if are of the same model and more or less equidistance, in my opinion the minidsp is not necessary, could potentially make things worse. I tried it, had spent hours on trial and error trying to get the best FR curve. Tried it in two rooms, on the FL/FR with 1 and 2 subs, there are some minor/negligible improvements on paper but all based on REW measurements with mic in the main position only. To me, nothing I experienced that could justify the additional interconnects, another heater (though a tiny one), and potentially limited by the mini's max 2V RCA output (according to specs). Almost sold me for cheap but potential buyer is in the US, didn't seem like going through the trouble shipping overseas in the end, so now I am keeping it for use as an active crossover for one of my two channel system that I am using Dirac two channel version.

No doubt the mindsp is a useful device but it is overrated, for use with multichannel system that already has Audyssey or Dirac Live, that's just my opinion and I know users will never be convinced because they like what they heard with the mini (to me, that's Placebo/bias at work, subjective at best...) Those who use mso with it may be able to show some objective results though, my comments are based on using it with REW filters, or just manual tweaks only.

Thanks for the detailed reply, peng. Much appreciated!