Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[peng]

Hi,

I've read all the messages on this thread but some things are still not clear to me.

For the explanation I've change my X2600H for a X3700H that I should receive in few days because I bought some new speakers that seems to need more power.

I will use it with the 2x Focal 926, a focal 900CC and 2X SR700 (so in 5.0, I don't have any subwoofer so my front speaker are set to large and the 3 others to small), and I will also use a power amplifier for my two front speaker : a boXem Arthur 3409/N2, based on Hypex NCore with 4Ohm sensibility of 1.66 V RMS.

When watching movie or playing video game, should I use the 11.1 channel tricks to have the internal amp disconnected or will I loose somethings as I've only 5 speaker or does audissey will still dispatch the sound for the channel I don't have, in my speaker ? (like if I configured it for 5.0 and listening somethings made for more than 5 speakers ).

(If it I understand well for music listening it's not a problem as I can have a second preset that I can configure to disconnect all the power amp when listening to stereo.)

Does the fact that it clip at 1.4V means that I will not hear any difference until I put the volume at somethings like 84% of the capacity ? (1.66 * 0.84 = 1.4v ). A volume level that I will certainly never or very rarely use in practice.

Thanks

Such questions have been answered by others many times but it is naturally scattered so may be hard to search. Below are links to two examples:

(1) Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H | Page 3 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
(1) Review and Measurements of IOM NCore Pro PWR Amp | Page 10 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

So it is not a "fact" that preamp output clips at 1.4 V. It is the build in power amps that would be clipping at that point. The pre out itself would clip at much higher level, such as >3 Vrms, at 2 V, THD+N would be <0.015% (from the graph). And that's just the normal mode, if you use the 11.1 amp assign trick then the FL and FR preamp output would improve to about 0.0013%, that's better than the specified 0.008%.

For your X3700H, at 1.66 V, distortions+noise should still be below the threshold of audibility (in terms of THD) if paired with power amp that has equal or better THD+N. Again, without using the amp assign trick or preamp mode, even at over 2 V, THD+N was only about 0.015%, that is still better than or at least comparable to some preamp processors, or integrated amps or preamps.

Also, depending on your seating distance and how loud you listen, your preout may not even reach 1.2 V even during the highest peaks. It is calculable too if you know the maximum spl you would listen to and your seating distance.

 

[reg19]

Using the X3700H as analog-only for audio: If I feed the output of a decent DAC (I have the Chord Qutest at home) to feed the X3700H (via RCA interconnects) and then out from there to a ‘very clean’ power amp (I have the McIntosh MC402 which has a quad differential design to minimize noise), is it possible to keep the signal in the X3700H in the analog domain? In other words: is its volume control digital or analog? For this mode of listening, I plan to use X3700H in this ‘2-channel audio’ mode in which all amps are external. No subs (well, I have 2 REL S510 subs but they shall be connected to high level inputs at power amp). Speakers are good quality (the $24k Focal Sopra 3). TIA.

 

[peng]

Using the X3700H as analog-only for audio: If I feed the output of a decent DAC (I have the Chord Qutest at home) to feed the X3700H (via RCA interconnects) and then out from there to a ‘very clean’ power amp (I have the McIntosh MC402 which has a quad differential design to minimize noise), is it possible to keep the signal in the X3700H in the analog domain? In other words: is its volume control digital or analog? For this mode of listening, I plan to use X3700H in this ‘2-channel audio’ mode in which all amps are external. No subs (well, I have 2 REL S510 subs but they shall be connected to high level inputs at power amp). Speakers are good quality (the $24k Focal Sopra 3). TIA.

If you do that and want to signal remain analog you have to use direct or pure direct mode otherwise the signal from the Chord would get converted to digital and then back to analog, and then the volume control IC.

The volume control IC data can be downloaded:

8-Channel Electronic Volume: Audio Signal Processing (njr.com)

 

[amper42]

If you do that and want to signal remain analog you have to use direct or pure direct mode otherwise the signal from the Chord would get converted to digital and then back to analog, and then the volume control IC.

The volume control IC data can be downloaded:

8-Channel Electronic Volume: Audio Signal Processing (njr.com)

The downside to direct or pure direct is it disables Audyssey. It's hard to find a room that doesn't sound better with some EQ under 500Hz. You will need to decide if analog sounds better than having Audyssey engaged for your particular room. Even if you have great speakers the room usually has an impact on the final sound at the listening position.

 

[peng]

The downside to direct or pure direct is it disables Audyssey. It's hard to find a room that doesn't sound better with some EQ under 500Hz. You will need to decide if analog sounds better than having Audyssey engaged for your particular room. Even if you have great speakers the room usually has an impact on the final sound at the listening position.

I agree with you, just trying to answer the OP's specific question.

 

[wrat]

debating myself as to whether the 3700 is a worthwhile addition / upgrade used strictly as a pre/pro, I am currently using a yamaha rxa 870.
running a 5.2.2 1 zone atmos system
sources are pc/foobar , pc/bluray 4k , vinyl (already have a separate phono pre)
I am unsure if it would be an audible upgrade

 

[amper42]

debating myself as to whether the 3700 is a worthwhile addition / upgrade used strictly as a pre/pro, I am currently using a yamaha rxa 870.
running a 5.2.2 1 zone atmos system
sources are pc/foobar , pc/bluray 4k , vinyl (already have a separate phono pre)
I am unsure if it would be an audible upgrade

If you enjoy the Yamaha rxa 870 why upgrade?
I noticed the Denon 3700 is in stock here:
https://listenup.com/denon-avr-x3700h-8k-av-receiver.html
However, lots of other vendors have it marked out of stock.

I would not expect a huge difference in sound except Audyssey will provide advanced EQ options and you'll have the option to use pre-out only mode to bypass the internal amps. What speakers will be attached to the receiver?

 

[wrat]

If you enjoy the Yamaha rxa 870 why upgrade?
I noticed the Denon 3700 is in stock here:
https://listenup.com/denon-avr-x3700h-8k-av-receiver.html
However, lots of other vendors have it marked out of stock.

I would not expect a huge difference in sound except Audyssey will provide advanced EQ options and you'll have the option to use pre-out only mode to bypass the internal amps. What speakers will be attached to the receiver?

Just Center channel, surround channels and atmos channel, have separate amp for mains

 

[StuartC]

In Pre-amp mode Denon Zone 2 is non-functional. If you use an amp assign mode that supports Zone 2, then the amp measurement will be the same as any internal amp on the Denon 3700.

Further confirmation of this from Denon support when I queried them:

Dear Customer,

If you put the 3700 into preamp mode in the amp assign/ assign mode setting then the Zone 2 preout cannot be used because all of the internal processing is dedicated to 11 channels for main zone.

best regards

sound united support

 

[Persik]

Does anybody use x3700h in 7.1 bi-amp mode?
I am using x3700h with Emotiva 4 ohm speakers, T2+, C2+, and 2 pairs of A1, leaving 2 amp channels unused. Apparently, these are some power hungry speakers. Nevertheless I never go above -20dB, as it is already uncomfortably loud.
Will there be any benefit in bi-amping my fronts?

 

[amper42]

Does anybody use x3700h in 7.1 bi-amp mode?
I am using x3700h with Emotiva 4 ohm speakers, T2+, C2+, and 2 pairs of A1, leaving 2 amp channels unused. Apparently, these are some power hungry speakers. Nevertheless the less I never go above -20dB.
Will there be any benefit in bi-amping my fronts?

Most passive speakers are optimized to be used with a single amp. It's possible you may notice a bit more power with a Bi-amp setup but it will require spending time balancing the amplification to sound as good as a single amp setup. Bi-amp for most people is a Unicorn search for a better sound that's usually a waste of time for normal home listening levels.

 

[jgiannakas]

I’ve tried the bi amp mode on the denon x2300w and it made the sound worse as it appeared the second amp was a Db or so louder than the first causing sound imbalance.

 

[Persik]

Thank you both! Would not Audyssey EQ balance the amplification from different channels?

 

[Bear123]

Does anybody use x3700h in 7.1 bi-amp mode?
I am using x3700h with Emotiva 4 ohm speakers, T2+, C2+, and 2 pairs of A1, leaving 2 amp channels unused. Apparently, these are some power hungry speakers. Nevertheless I never go above -20dB, as it is already uncomfortably loud.
Will there be any benefit in bi-amping my fronts?

-20 MV is only 65 dB average with 85 dB peaks, which is not very loud at all and won't require much power for normal listening distance of 9-12'.

 

[jgiannakas]

Thank you both! Would not Audyssey EQ balance the amplification from different channels?

Not for me as I limit audussey to 300hz or so as I find the corrections it does over that point to alter my speakers tonality for the worse…

 

[Persik]

Given: x3700h, ECO off, 8 ohm setting left as is, 7 total speakers connected, with bi-amped 4ohm fronts, crossed at 60Hz to subwoofer.
Is there a way to estimate available power to bi-amped 4ohm fronts when used as stereo with sub and as HT?

 

[Acerun]

Am I reading the measurements correctly that the built in amps in the x3700 are superior in output and Sinad to the Niles SI-275? I did see that with the amps off, Sinad jumped to 101...But would the external amp have to have at least 101 in Sinad?

Sorry if this is obvious but I want to be sure I'm understanding clearly. I have three Niles SI-275 that I was thinking of using with a x3700 to power a 5.2 system. Thanks.

 

[jgiannakas]

Am I reading the measurements correctly that the built in amps in the x3700 are superior in output and Sinad to the Niles SI-275? I did see that with the amps off, Sinad jumped to 101...But would the external amp have to have at least 101 in Sinad?

Sorry if this is obvious but I want to be sure I'm understanding clearly. I have three Niles SI-275 that I was thinking of using with a x3700 to power a 5.2 system. Thanks.


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Yes they are. Also have more power in two channel mode. But will have slightly less power in 5 channels (61% / ~ 70 watts per channel)

 

[Bear123]

Yes it would seem that the Denon AVR is both higher fidelity and has more power than your external amps.

 

[Acerun]

Yes they are. Also have more power in two channel mode. But will have slightly less power in 5 channels (61% / ~ 70 watts per channel)

Thanks...Wow...so then no advantage whatsoever to using the Niles SI-275 besides a little more power into 5 channels, but with lower Sinad if I understand correctly.

On the other hand the frequency response looks far superior in the Niles. How would that correspond to real world listening?