Danny Richie, GR Research, doesn't recommend a speaker he can't sell an "upgrade" kit for

[Sal1950]

He quoted a price for the crossover parts ranging from $750 -1000 depending on the quality of the caps you select!?

As big a waste of money as his power cords.

 

[DMill]

I fell for Danny's latest clickbait and checked out his video. It got me thinking. Such a lousy FR, had those classic Pioneer HPM-100s
really that?
Could it not be that the very copy of the HPM-100 that Danny has, the components of the passive crossover filter have simply stopped working properly? Maybe the capacitors have lost their original values, maybe some solder loosened a bit or something else. Ok Danny does a nice job must be added with the new passive crossover filter but it would have been interesting to see how the original filter with the exact same design but with new components would have looked like VS the old one that was in when Danny got the speakers VS the passive crossover Danny created.

Here a screenshot FR before and after Danny's modification with the new filter he created. The upper graph is after his modification. The bottom one is as it looked before with those speakers, 12:15 into the video. Danny also later shows the off -axis response and there is a big difference after his modification:
View attachment 311917

It’s really his TShirts that now bother me. You want to waste money on tube connectors, go right ahead. But stop with the puns on your shirts. You’re 50+ for Gods sake.

 

[Penelinfi]

It’s really his TShirts that now bother me. You want to waste money on tube connectors, go right ahead. But stop with the puns on your shirts. You’re 50+ for Gods sake.

Not so much of an issue to me. People don't really "grow up" , and it's like personal preference of music.
I didn't even look at the shirt until you mentioned it; was too busy searching through the graphs

 

[dfuller]

But there's an extra A/D and D/A conversion

With lower distortion than most amps, yes.

here are several different ways that digital crossover filters are made. It's not difficult to hear the difference and I bet it's quite measurable (though I have never measured it).

I mean, you can do linear phase or minimum phase, and minimum phase can be IIR or FIR.

Replicating the filters from a passive and active crossover will definitely sound different.

It shouldn't, if you reach the same response.

My only point here is that DSP is not always the best answer, especially when the DSP is cheap.

Yeah, like I noted: op amp filters work just fine too. I tend to prefer them honestly.

 

[Mike4700h]

Yea yea, Danny knows more than all the degree'd engineers working for the
best speaker manufacturers around. Maybe Revel, JBL, Genelec, KEF, Klispch, Wharfdale, etc
should all hire him to show them how to do it.

No shiiiitttt...what is his deal. He obviously knows what he's talking about and can design a great crossover.....but do we really think manufacturers like KEF are going to release their "Reference" line without testing and spending a few dollars on descent crossover capacitors and inductor? Obviously, Danny is the only guy that has the secret sauce. He's also a big proponent of power cables and speaker wire changing the sound. Could never understand how connecting a 6 foot/ $1000 power cord to a wall socket that is connected to miles of electrical Romex can do anything. His answer is always.....wire is an antenna.....

 

[solderdude]

His answer is always.....wire is an antenna.....

And that part is true but not related

 

[multichannel_guy]

No shiiiitttt...what is his deal. He obviously knows what he's talking about and can design a great crossover.....but do we really think manufacturers like KEF are going to release their "Reference" line without testing and spending a few dollars on descent crossover capacitors and inductor? Obviously, Danny is the only guy that has the secret sauce. He's also a big proponent of power cables and speaker wire changing the sound. Could never understand how connecting a 6 foot/ $1000 power cord to a wall socket that is connected to miles of electrical Romex can do anything. His answer is always.....wire is an antenna.....

I have seen low quality crossover parts in speakers priced above 30k. These companies are there to make money, not give you enthusiast grade sound like some nerd in the high end crossover diy groups or similar.

 

[Jim Taylor]

I have seen low quality crossover parts in speakers priced above 30k. These companies are there to make money, not give you enthusiast grade sound like some nerd in the high end crossover diy groups or similar.

There is no such thing as a low quality crossover part, nor is there such a thing as a high quality crossover part. There are only crossover parts that do or do not perform the required function. That includes hear dissipation and stability under varying loads.
As a corollary, there is no such thing as "enthusiast grade sound". A double-blind test will show you the truth of that matter. Any crossovers that can be identified in a DBT will show up as having differences under tests and measurements. Any crossovers that do not show up as having differences in tests and measurements will not be able to be identified in a DBT.

It is true that companies are there to make money. Scammers and snake oil salesmen are there for the same reason. Buyer beware.

 

[Ageve]

I have seen low quality crossover parts in speakers priced above 30k.

Low quality as in broken, or "not approved by audiophiles"?

Sonus Faber Piccolo Solo, measured when new (by Sound & Vision), and by me 24 years later (different samples of course):

Frequency response is very similar, and distortion is below 0.5% > 120 Hz.

Crossover with iron core inductors and inexpensive capacitors:

(The black glue/resin is used in many SF speakers)

 

[Sal1950]

Scammers and snake oil salesmen are there for the same reason. Buyer beware

Much more so, they're there to take advantage of the consumers ignorance of reality and science

Danny is the only guy that has the secret sauce. He's also a big proponent of power cables and speaker wire changing the sound.

To lock into Danny's line of BS you have to believe in the magic. All that's required to make a difference in sound is his (or anyone's) word
that it happens. Absolutely no further evidence is required.
"I saw David Copperfield make a 747 totally disappear off a runway, it really happened since I seen it with my own eyes." Right?

Could never understand how connecting a 6 foot/ $1000 power cord to a wall socket that is connected to miles of electrical Romex can do anything.

Oh my, maybe a problem there, that cord was too cheap.
In January 2025 The Absolute Sound gave it's Product Of The Year award to Crystal Cable's $34,000 / 6ft cord.
Seriously friends, you just can't fix stupid at this level of silly.

 

[DMill]

There is no such thing as a low quality crossover part, nor is there such a thing as a high quality crossover part

It’s possible to consider a crossover using high quality parts might last longer. That said, the quality of that part probably has little to do with price. But your point is 100% valid. The crossover either works within spec or it doesn’t. It’s not a difficult concept to understand. Many of the crossover mods I’ve seen by GR Research, by their own sketchy data, show sacrificing sensitivity to attempt to create a more linear frequency response. And at a significant cost, sometimes as much as the speaker’s resale value. In cases where GR research is modding an expensive speaker like a Wilson I would think that speakers resale value greatly diminished. My advice to a Wilson owner is sell it to someone who wants it for as close to the price you paid, and buy something else. Modding it is a dead end if you care at all about your wallet.

 

[NTK]

Which are the higher quality parts? And guess which ones cost >2x more than the others

 

[MattHooper]

There is no such thing as a low quality crossover part, nor is there such a thing as a high quality crossover part. There are only crossover parts that do or do not perform the required function.

This, in my own limited way, is what I’ve always thought as well.

(and perhaps part of my views were formed by owning various Thiel speakers which had notoriously complex crossovers with lots of parts in order to achieve time phase coherence. This is just the type of thing that the “ you need the fewest parts in the path possible and the highest quality” brigade would decry, But I never heard any advantage to the purported “ speakers with less crossover parts and higher quality crossovers.” There was nothing I could detect in the performance of the Thiels, certainly no lack of detail, that suggested the complex crossover was having the type of deleterious smearing/veiling effects ascribed to such an approach).

 

[dfuller]

This, in my own limited way, is what I’ve always thought as well.

(and perhaps part of my views were formed by owning various Thiel speakers which had notoriously complex crossovers with lots of parts in order to achieve time phase coherence. This is just the type of thing that the “ you need the fewest parts in the path possible and the highest quality” brigade would decry, But I never heard any advantage to the purported “ speakers with less crossover parts and higher quality crossovers.” There was nothing I could detect in the performance of the Thiels, certainly no lack of detail, that suggested the complex crossover was having the type of deleterious smearing/veiling effects ascribed to such an approach).

The only thing I can think of that is "fewer parts better" is that complex passive filters tend to make for some pretty screwy impedance and phase curves, which can be strange for an amp to drive.

However this is just further reasoning in my book for why to use active crossovers, the filters are all buffered so it can be as complex as you like without incurring any impedance weirdness.

 

[Jim Creek]

Danny’s business model is to make profits selling ‘upgraded’ crossover parts and connectors. He has to fabricate a convincing scenario in order to persuade audio consumers to part with their money. In that regard he is a very good snake oil salesman.

 

[tw 2022]

Well, in his kits, he is selling you a new crossover design as well. (The valuation of his design skills are certainly debatable.)
But, you can't get the design without buying the parts.
So, it is an interesting business model.

In my opinion, relative to many other people selling products/services into the audiophile market, Danny is a long way from the bottom.
In an industry full of snake oil salesman, you need to be nuanced in applying the designation.

Dave Reite.

idk, i see Dennis Murphy and the way he does diy design availability and i see "the standard" .. he's willing to help out the diy guy ....

 

[tw 2022]

Well sure. Dennis had a different approach. And it's never really been his day job.
Those of us that have been around awhile remember the crossover contest he won on the old Madisound forum many years ago.

Danny is helping out the DIY guy too. You just have to pay him. It's your choice.

I think maybe the attitude aimed at Danny on this forum is mainly from people who weren't aware of him until recently. I don't fall into that category.
I'm not defending the guy. But I completely understand what he's doing and where he's coming from.

Dave Reite.

that's a completely fair take on things ...

 

[Jim Creek]

In my opinion, relative to many other people selling products/services into the audiophile market, Danny is a long way from the bottom.
In an industry full of snake oil salesman, you need to be nuanced in applying the designation.

Dave Reite.

Danny is selling $400 IEC power cords. IMO he’s near the bottom.

 

[Sal1950]

Danny is selling $400 IEC power cords. IMO he’s near the bottom.

Well there ya go, it can't be any good that cheap.
Ya got to get the Crystal Cable $34,000 / 6ft power cord that Stereophile just awarded a 2024 Product Of The Year to if you want great sound.

 

[amirm]

FYI, post my review, Danny no longer allows returns of those power cables:

"All fully completed cables, finished cabinets, and speakers are all custom built to order.

• Full-refunds are only possible if cancelled within 24- hours. (standard 3% cancellation fee still applies)
• Partial Refund: Once assembly has begun on your order, only a partial refund is possible up, to the remaining cost of labor and materials at time of cancellation.
• No refunds OR cancellations at, or after, the time of completion/delivery."

I don't know anyone who sells mail order products with this kind of policy. Nothing he is listing is "custom" as in specific to a single customer. Him building them to order doesn't make them custom.