Downgrade to KEF LS50 Meta from KEF R7 Meta

[Frank Dernie]

Hello,

I'm currently running a pair of KEF R7 Meta speakers together with a KEF Kube 10 MIE subwoofer on my system.
The subwoofer was recently added after it (although only one) reproduced the bass range much better than both R7 Meta together without subwoofer.
The subwoofer is currently positioned to the right of the right speaker (near a corner of the room), crossover frequency is 90Hz.

I have also attached two screenshots, one showing just the two R7 Meta (2.0) and one showing the R7 Meta together with the Kube subwoofer (2.1).
In each case with and without Dirac activated. The Dirac profile currently used is relatively linear (+1 in the bass and -1 in the treble for the sliders).

Unfortunately, there is still a dip at around 100Hz, which I can't get rid of even with a high crossover frequency of 150Hz to the subwoofer.
The general increases from approx. 120Hz to approx. 900Hz are corrected quite well by Dirac.

But since I want to keep the subwoofer in the setup, the bass is simply better with a subwoofer, I'm wondering whether the R7 Meta still makes sense or whether smaller speakers would also work.
I might try a second subwoofer and position it diagonally opposite in the other corner of the room.
Perhaps the crossover frequency could then be a little higher.

I'm thinking of switching to the KEF LS50 Meta, as they should be crossed over to a subwoofer from approx. 100Hz, which would suit perfectly.
The smaller speaker might also improve the frequency response somewhat, but that would have to be tested.

I would be grateful for a few opinions on whether it would make sense to switch from R7 Meta to LS50 Meta with one or two subwoofers.

The room is approx. 26 square meters in size (approx. 6 x 4 meters), the speakers are on the long side of the room, the sofa on the opposite side behind the windows.
The speakers are about 2.50 meters apart and I am sitting about 3.40 meters away.

I usually listen at room volume, but occasionally a little louder. In general, however, I would assume that there are no peaks higher than 85dB when listening at higher volumes.

Thank you in advance.

Best regards

Your seating position is near a node in one of the room modes at 110 Hz by the look of it.
You may be able to fill it by putting a second sub near the listening position.

 

[Acapella]

Update from my side:

Current setup is: NAD C658 --> NC252MP --> KEF R3 Meta + Nubert nuSub XW-800
Crossover is at 120 or 130Hz to eliminate the null which is produced from the R3 Meta on the listening position.

Subwoofer is placed between the R3s and on the right side of the left loudspeaker behind the lowboard.
The chassis is working against the wall behind the subwoofer (cause it is a flat subwoofer).
For me the best position within the setup, also after Dirac I get a most even bass response.

Some measurement pics:

Dirac OFF 1/24 Smoothing 2.1:

Dirac OFF Psy Smoothing 2.1:

With the Psy smoothing the null between 70 and about 110Hz is good viewable.
I think the Psy smoothing gives a better "view" of what it will sound like on the measurement position.
Cause as far as I know the Psy smoothing shows a better view of what our brain and ears will "see" the sound.

If I am wrong here, please correct me.

Now some pics with Dirac On with a relative flat target curve (Bass Slider on 0dB, Treble Slider on -1dB) and will full bandwidth correction active.

Dirac ON 1/24 Smoothing 2.1:

Dirac ON Psy Smoothing 2.1:

I made then also some MMM measurements where I moved the microphone around my MLP, which from my point of view gets a closer result of what I will sound like.

Dirac ON 1/24 Smoothing 2.1 MMM Measurement:

Dirac ON Psy Smoothing 2.1 MMM Measurement:

I think for a setup with speakers placed near to the back wall and with a single sub the results are not that bad.
With a subwoofer array it would be a lot better, but that also needs more effort in the setup and also needs more money for the additional subs.

RT60 with Dirac OFF:

RT60 with Dirac ON:

The only "problem" I have, is that Dirac reduces the volume of the entire system above -4dB.
So when I get around 75dB with a 1kHz Sine tone when having the volume on the C658 at -26dB with Dirac OFF, I need to push the volume on the C658 to -22dB to get also the 75dB at 1kHz when Dirac is enabled. It does not make any difference which target curve I use here.

Any advices on that volume topic?
Will a more powerful amp (with a higher gain, the NC252MP has about 25dB Gain) helpful?

I think here about the Apollon Audio ST Line with the Purifi Modules which I can raise the gain up to 29dB.

I also tried a full Dirac measurement with and without the plugs (with the inlet of the KEF Plugs inside, so "full" plug) inserted at the bass reflex ports of the R3.
That did not change anything on the volume reduction which Dirac applies.

With the R7 Meta (which are sold) and the XW Subwoofer the difference between Dirac ON and OFF was only 1.5dB so a lot less than with R3 Meta and XW Subwoofer.
Maybe that comes cause of the R7 Meta has better efficiency than the R3 Meta.

Any other feedback to the current setup is also appreciated.

 

[Acapella]

Some other question from my side, regarding the level adjustment while using Dirac Live.

Is it better when the Subwoofer and the Main Speakers have the same level while level adjustment in Dirac Live, like in the following screenshot:

Or is it better when the subwoofer is some dBs louder or quieter then the two main speakers?

Maybe some have played around with it and can give a recommendation for that.
Eventually it also can help to reduce the amount of dB that Dirac reduces the master volume when filters are active.