Danny Richie, GR Research, doesn't recommend a speaker he can't sell an "upgrade" kit for

[Jaxjax]

It's to bad about Danny as he could be a positive accept to the audio community. He's slick enough he could always crawl his way out this if he wanted too. He could just stop selling any cables, those stupid tube things & implement some suggested measurement technics or just buy a darn Klippel. I have seen several YT'ers change their ways in recent years & putting priority importance on real measurements, room acoustics treatments,..etc. He also could still do his speaker mod side hustle by fixing bad crossover design, etc..

 

[ta240]

Such "haters" are branded as ignorant or simply trolls unworthy of rebuttal. We've also seen multiple instances of corrective comments politely made on his channel scrubbed out of existence.

Ignoring or silencing the opposition is usually a good sign that the person has no real argument.

Somehow this is reminding me of another group of people frequently in the spotlight these days.

Ironically, it probably reminds both sides of the other.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Agree Danny demonstrates some level of competency but pushes back when shown better methods or simple corrections. This shows a lack of scientific competency.

Rather than indicating incompetence, it could suggest that he has narcissistic tendencies, with his arrogance becoming more apparent in these situations. This seems just as plausible as attributing it to incompetence, especially considering that he must possess a certain level of knowledge to navigate the waters as effectively as he does and has done for so many years.

 

[amirm]

Rather than indicating incompetence,

He said "scientific competence." I am confident Danny has not read a single paper on acoustics. His comments are routinely incorrect as a matter of engineering and science.

He has technical level knowledge of assembling parts and speakers. Nothing beyond.

 

[RickS]

Rather than indicating incompetence, it could suggest that he has narcissistic tendencies, with his arrogance becoming more apparent in these situations. This seems just as plausible as attributing it to incompetence, especially considering that he must possess a certain level of knowledge to navigate the waters as effectively as he does and has done for so many years.

Could be both as well, but the technical incompetence is much clearer. I treated him fairly when he felt his speaker was not fairly reviewed. On multiple occasions, Danny chose to obstruct further testing even after we had cooperated with his requests. If he was technically competent to show how his speakers are superior, he has had plenty of opportunity to do so. Instead, he continues to blame Amir and I for his shortcomings.

As long as Danny promotes audio foolery over audio science, even when he may be correct, his motivations will be suspect. For ASR to allow ongoing misrepresentations by Danny unchecked would be a disservice to the greater audio community.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Could be both as well, but the technical incompetence is much clearer. I treated him fairly when he felt his speaker was not fairly reviewed. On multiple occasions, Danny chose to obstruct further testing even after we had cooperated with his requests. If he was technically competent to show how his speakers are superior, he has had plenty of opportunity to do so. Instead, he continues to blame Amir and I for his shortcomings.

As long as Danny promotes audio foolery over audio science, even when he may be correct, his motivations will be suspect. For ASR to allow ongoing misrepresentations by Danny unchecked would be a disservice to the greater audio community.

Sure.
I wasn't defending the man at all. If anything, knowing what's right and wrong yet continuing his actions is, in my opinion, even worse than genuinely believing in what he's saying.

 

[boxerfan88]

I watched a little bit of that latest video. Early on 2:00-3:00 he said customer just need to send 1 speaker for him to design upgrade, no need to send both speakers.
How interesting ... he assumes both are identical ... and just works off one speaker.

If the one speaker sent to him had some defect that the other one did not have, he would have design an XO/upgrade that would have messed up the other speaker performance. Gosh ... sounds like a process/workflow weakness.

Stopped watching soon after ...

 

[Purité Audio]

We managed to get him into a clean shirt, the sky’s the limit.
Keith

 

[MarcT]

Another speaker Danny compliments and says the manufacturer did a good job. He says he will make a kit for it but he doesn't claim the kit is required for the speaker to perform well.

 

[Jim Creek]

What is ASR's objective regards Danny Richie?? Put him out of business?
If your objective is to get him to start reading books, or taking engineering classes, or start using simulation software, or etc, etc. It ain't gonna work.
He's been running this shtick for about 25 years now and various people have taken him to task and eventually thrown their hands up. He's still there.
He's using you guys for advertising now.

My suggestion would be to adopt a different approach. Or, just let him be and concentrate ASR efforts on more important things.

Dave Reite.

I think the goal here is to warn consumers that he is disseminating false information, a pseudo science designed to support his business model. It’s also important to out him as a snake oil salesman, a charlatan and sleaze bag.

We need to inform people that $400 IEC power cords serve no purpose other than to make Danny Ritchie money. In spite of our efforts there will always be a cult who support his pseudo science.

 

[ta240]

What is ASR's objective regards Danny Richie?? Put him out of business?
If your objective is to get him to start reading books, or taking engineering classes, or start using simulation software, or etc, etc. It ain't gonna work.
He's been running this shtick for about 25 years now and various people have taken him to task and eventually thrown their hands up. He's still there.
He's using you guys for advertising now.

My suggestion would be to adopt a different approach. Or, just let him be and concentrate ASR efforts on more important things.

Dave Reite.

As someone that owns a pretty good selection of boutique items that were bought based on pitches very much like Danny's and individuals on forums backing those claims, I see the purpose as putting a differing opinion out there for people to see.

I've noticed an increase in Danny being quoted, as an expert, on forums and in the comments of other youtube videos. While I think personal insults and attacks aren't beneficial, I do see the importance of getting the other side of the issue out there. The main problem with pseudoscience is that to most people it sounds just like science and having more and more people quote and back him just strengthens his claims and gives him imaginary, internet credentials in his field.

It is one thing for people to see both sides of the argument and make a decision that they want to buy ridiculously expensive items or upgrade kits that may cause other problems, but another entirely for someone to buy those things because there isn't any information questioning those things.

 

[RickS]

Another speaker Danny compliments and says the manufacturer did a good job. He says he will make a kit for it but he doesn't claim the kit is required for the speaker to perform well.

Old news and he is wrong as these speakers have poor horizontal directivity (detailed in another thread).

So, whereas they could potentially benefit from crossover changes, Danny forgoes and still sells a $400 upgrade for $500/pair speaker.

 

[Jim Creek]

An example of a cult that supports Danny Ritchie is on the superbestaudiofriends.org website. The Danny Ritchie video is featured on the front page. This is what they say:

“Danny Ritchie of GR-Research posted an excellent video on loudspeaker design today. For those interested in the design and engineering of loudspeakers, I think you'll find it informative and educational.”

There you have it.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Is it time for a member poll on this persistent point of contention among us?

 

[ta240]

Providing differing opinions and the other side of the issues/arguments has already been done....on myriad other forums through the years.
You're just giving me a version of the standard reply I've seen here previously.
I am asking what is different about ASR's approach? And what will succeed where others have (seemingly) failed?

Since I posted, ASR members have put two more advertising video links to Danny's YT channel into this thread.
Are you starting to see what I mean???

Dave Reite.

I agree, the links generally seem to me to be a mistake. I'm not sure how that plays into Youtube's algorithm for promoting a video/channel but I can only imagine it helps. Apparently, there is a very short timeframe for a video to be widely successful right after it is released and the views after that won't really promote it in people's feeds. However, it would seem that having prior videos with a lot of external links could very well make their next video get pushed a bit more by Youtube.

I'm also not sure how it impacts any search results for the forum to have updated threads on the subject. And even then how many people that watch one of his videos search for counterpoints about it.
When I was buying progressively more expensive capacitors to improve the sound I didn't search for information on it, I just went off of all the people that seemed respected on forums raving about them as being good, valid sources. The approach here has the measurements to go along with it, and while that won't convince the hardcore fans it may sway the people new to the mix. But I do think a lot of what goes on here is preaching to the choir. And when the attacks go personal it makes it easier for the other side. Everyone loves an underdog and it is easy to make these salespeople into the poor little guy that is trying to help people but is being attacked by entire forums of people.

The other problem is pseudoscience is fun and real science is hard.

 

[ta240]

Is it time for a member poll on this persistent point of contention among us?

Is this a poll question on if we should have a poll on the other question?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Is this a poll question on if we should have a poll on the other question?

Sort of. Some of us seem to believe that it's a valuable service to consistently debunk the misleading videos folks like Richie put out, others opine that ignoring that sort of stuff is preferable because it avoids ASR giving the Richies of the world more exposure.

 

[RickS]

As long as we keep it factual and stick to science, personally see little issue with debunking Danny.

Danny gets plenty of traffic on youtube. Any benefit he derives from a few more hits from ASR members is small compared to the benefit ASR provides by helping others make better informed decisions imo.

Facts stand up in the light of scrutiny. Why should we not shine some light to help others get the best value for their audio investment? Without shining the light of audio science, others are left to navigate a much darker sea of subjectivity (whether from Danny or someone else).

 

[dfuller]

The instant I knew DR was a huckster was when he went out of his way to dump on active crossovers. If he was really as engineering focused as he claims to be then he'd know that passive crossovers in and of themselves are a compromise from the era when active electronics were either too bulky, too noisy, or too expensive to be used for speaker crossovers. Can't have "smear" from binding posts (lol) or cheezy capacitors (double lol) or """"sand cast"""" resistors (they're not, just wirewounds in a rectangular package) (triple lol) if they aren't there.

There is no situation where I'd rather have the electrical features of the voice coils be part of the crossover circuit than not.

 

[amirm]

The instant I knew DR was a huckster was when he went out of his way to dump on active crossovers. If he was really as engineering focused as he claims to be then he'd know that passive crossovers in and of themselves are a compromise from the era when active electronics were either too bulky, too noisy, or too expensive to be used for speaker crossovers. Can't have "smear" from binding posts (lol) or cheezy capacitors (double lol) or """"sand cast"""" resistors (they're not, just wirewounds in a rectangular package) (triple lol) if they aren't there.

Indeed. The bulk of his business is selling crossover parts. Active speakers and DSP eliminate that so he fights the advancement.