Carver M-1.5t Review (Vintage Amp)

[Ranster]

Plenty of gear tests as new. I have an awful lot of HiFi, a collection you may find hard to comprehend the scale of. Suffice it to say, like everything, there's a lot of BS and opinions stated as facts that are far from it.

I've pulled NOS sealed stuff out of my storeroom that is over 30 years old and tests better than rated spec (because they were conservative in the first place).

Why does everyone point the finger at electrolytics? Because everyone has seen a leaky cap, heard about leaky caps and knows they are easy enough to source and replace. And it makes them feel like they've "restored" something. They haven't.

Why stop at electrolytic capacitors? What about film, greencaps, ceramic and tantalum? Most resistors drift. So do fusible resistors (they are terrible). Diodes, zeners get noisy, transistors become leaky, noisy or low in gain. Pots wear, switches corrode/oxidize, CMOS switches break down, VFDs lose their emissive properties, transformers can break down etc. etc.

Capacitors are an easy target for weekend warriors. Mostly, they fix nothing and often (more than often) they make a mess and consign what was a perfectly functioning vintage product to the scrap heap.

Measure your gear, fault find and repair first! NO throwing a bag of capacitors at it to see what sticks. Then you have a functional baseline. If you cannot measure your gear, you have no business poking around inside it attempting to fix something you haven't quantified as being broken in the first place.

You missed my point. I am a weekend warrior and have claimed nothing more. NOS isn’t a fair item to measure against something that has played hard for 40 years. Don’t think I’m taking up for carver as I replaced all of my carver gear as it was underpowered. Another reason I’m asking this question. I didn’t want a fight nor did I come here to be frowned upon because I’m not an EE and a how did you describe it a, mindless, weekend warrior. Emphasis added to reflect your tone. I asked you some questions about names of equipment. I meant that and nothing more. See I’m a realist and I don’t mince words or talk abstractly good yet mean something other intent as most in this world while disguising it as educated talking. If you have some stuff that has played for 40 years and measures perfect. Then I want in on the stuff I should be looking for. It’s that simple. I can’t measure equipment and I want to but something vintage that I can afford. Why is that so hard to understand. No, you have to act like I just killed your dog and talk types of capacitors and zener diodes they only allow a certain voltage move in one direction or capacitors that go where it gets real hot and poly’s would burn up and act like I’m stupid. Please get off the high horse. I meant what I said. Can I even afford the stuff you have that measures good at this age. I would rather have some names of equipment rather than buy and sell buy and sell and finally find that one piece I’ve been looking for before I die of old age. Besides if you name the equipment you know others will go and
Measure theirs to see? Well maybe I’m being facetious but then again you weren’t nice in your reply. If I smell BS I call it also. About the only equipment that measured well then and the same now after 40 years is something 98% of the population couldn’t afford then or now. I am interested in names and model numbers. I am old disabled and certainly no EE. I’ll take all the help I can get. If I knew how to modify and upgrade all my equipment and was smart as You I wouldn’t be asking this question would I?

 

[Ranster]

Plenty of gear tests as new. I have an awful lot of HiFi, a collection you may find hard to comprehend the scale of. Suffice it to say, like everything, there's a lot of BS and opinions stated as facts that are far from it.

I've pulled NOS sealed stuff out of my storeroom that is over 30 years old and tests better than rated spec (because they were conservative in the first place). Right now, there is a 30kg, 1976 Pioneer SX-1250 on my lab bench being restored and repaired. It tests better than spec (amp/preamp section).

In case you think I'm making that up.
View attachment 366596

Why does everyone point the finger at electrolytics? Because everyone has seen a leaky cap, heard about leaky caps and knows they are easy enough to source and replace. And it makes them feel like they've "restored" something. They haven't.

Why stop at electrolytic capacitors? What about film, greencaps, ceramic and tantalum? Most resistors drift. So do fusible resistors (they are terrible). Diodes, zeners get noisy, transistors become leaky, noisy or low in gain. Pots wear, switches corrode/oxidize, CMOS switches break down, VFDs lose their emissive properties, transformers can break down etc. etc.

Capacitors are an easy target for weekend warriors. Mostly, they fix nothing and often (more than often) they make a mess and consign what was a perfectly/mostly functioning vintage product to the scrap heap.

Measure your gear, fault find and repair first! NO throwing a bag of capacitors at it to see what sticks. Then you have a functional baseline. If you cannot measure your gear, you have no business poking around inside it attempting to fix something you haven't quantified as being broken in the first place.

Besides I mentioned an electrolytic because one exploded in my amp. Which I quickly took to a qualified repair man to fix.

 

[restorer-john]

You missed my point. I am a weekend warrior and have claimed nothing more. NOS isn’t a fair item to measure against something that has played hard for 40 years. Don’t think I’m taking up for carver as I replaced all of my carver gear as it was underpowered. Another reason I’m asking this question. I didn’t want a fight nor did I come here to be frowned upon because I’m not an EE and a how did you describe it a, mindless, weekend warrior. Emphasis added to reflect your tone. I asked you some questions about names of equipment. I meant that and nothing more. See I’m a realist and I don’t mince words or talk abstractly good yet mean something other intent as most in this world while disguising it as educated talking. If you have some stuff that has played for 40 years and measures perfect. Then I want in on the stuff I should be looking for. It’s that simple. I can’t measure equipment and I want to but something vintage that I can afford. Why is that so hard to understand. No, you have to act like I just killed your dog and talk types of capacitors and zener diodes they only allow a certain voltage move in one direction or capacitors that go where it gets real hot and poly’s would burn up and act like I’m stupid. Please get off the high horse. I meant what I said. Can I even afford the stuff you have that measures good at this age. I would rather have some names of equipment rather than buy and sell buy and sell and finally find that one piece I’ve been looking for before I die of old age. Besides if you name the equipment you know others will go and
Measure theirs to see? Well maybe I’m being facetious but then again you weren’t nice in your reply. If I smell BS I call it also. About the only equipment that measured well then and the same now after 40 years is something 98% of the population couldn’t afford then or now. I am interested in names and model numbers. I am old disabled and certainly no EE. I’ll take all the help I can get. If I knew how to modify and upgrade all my equipment and was smart as You I wouldn’t be asking this question would I?

There's no brand, model or specific product anybody can point you to. It all depends on context. You roll in here and want specifics after that response above?

Don't assume gear that measures the same now as it did 30 or 40 years ago is, or was, expensive or unaffordable either then or now. My advice is stay out of gear (no modifications), unless you can understand the circuit designs, characterize the flaws (if any) and test/simulate the 'tweaks' or 'improvements' you intend to throw at the piece of equipment.

And please, playing the "old and disabled" card? Seriously?

Good luck.

 

[Ranster]

Plenty of gear tests as new. I have an awful lot of HiFi, a collection you may find hard to comprehend the scale of. Suffice it to say, like everything, there's a lot of BS and opinions stated as facts that are far from it.

I've pulled NOS sealed stuff out of my storeroom that is over 30 years old and tests better than rated spec (because they were conservative in the first place). Right now, there is a 30kg, 1976 Pioneer SX-1250 on my lab bench being restored and repaired. It tests better than spec (amp/preamp section).

In case you think I'm making that up.
View attachment 366596

Why does everyone point the finger at electrolytics? Because everyone has seen a leaky cap, heard about leaky caps and knows they are easy enough to source and replace. And it makes them feel like they've "restored" something. They haven't.

Why stop at electrolytic capacitors? What about film, greencaps, ceramic and tantalum? Most resistors drift. So do fusible resistors (they are terrible). Diodes, zeners get noisy, transistors become leaky, noisy or low in gain. Pots wear, switches corrode/oxidize, CMOS switches break down, VFDs lose their emissive properties, transformers can break down etc. etc.

Capacitors are an easy target for weekend warriors. Mostly, they fix nothing and often (more than often) they make a mess and consign what was a perfectly/mostly functioning vintage product to the scrap heap.

Measure your gear, fault find and repair first! NO throwing a bag of capacitors at it to see what sticks. Then you have a functional baseline. If you cannot measure your gear, you have no business poking around inside it attempting to fix something you haven't quantified as being broken in the first place.

I’m sorry one last reply, the fact you mentioned a HIFI collection I couldn’t comprehend, well you are probably correct. And that’s to my point you pull out 40 year old gear that you break the seal on. I couldn’t afford it then and if it’s that good I would look for it. I’m quite poor. Yes you may be on a level of education and finances that prove your status. I have non of that. Can you Climb down here with the rest of us. We live down here. See my mom worked the late shift my dad was nowhere to be seen and I didn’t understand my homework. I had no one to help me. I’ve had no college. See, my audio gear is something I really love. The money I have is what I want to use to buy something good and of the best quality I can afford at this time in my life. That’s why I asked for the names of the stuff.

 

[Ranster]

There's no brand, model or specific product anybody can point you to. It all depends on context. You roll in here and want specifics after that response above?

Don't assume gear that measures the same now as it did 30 or 40 years ago is, or was, expensive or unaffordable either then or now. My advice is stay out of gear (no modifications), unless you can understand the circuit designs, characterize the flaws (if any) and test/simulate the 'tweaks' or 'improvements' you intend to throw at the piece of equipment.

And please, playing the "old and disabled" card? Seriously?

Good luck.

Old and disabled I am 57 and in my neck there are 13 plates, 26 screws 2 rods and a clasp holding it all together. I can send pics if you like. Sir

 

[Ranster]

There's no brand, model or specific product anybody can point you to. It all depends on context. You roll in here and want specifics after that response above?

Don't assume gear that measures the same now as it did 30 or 40 years ago is, or was, expensive or unaffordable either then or now. My advice is stay out of gear (no modifications), unless you can understand the circuit designs, characterize the flaws (if any) and test/simulate the 'tweaks' or 'improvements' you intend to throw at the piece of equipment.

And please, playing the "old and disabled" card? Seriously?

Good luck.

Thank you for the sane level headed reply.. That was good of you.
Well almost a polite reply. Also
Please don’t read a negative tone into my message. I have strong opinions but they are not nefarious in intent.
The stay out of gear seems a little insensitive. When did I say I’m going to modify gear. I noticed a problem and took it in to have it serviced. Nowhere did I say I modified anything. Don’t assume anything. Please and I posted some pics of my disability.
Seriously!!

 

[Ranster]

I think Restorer_John mentioned a Kenwood L02 amplifier as a comparison, and it made me curious. That amp was rated at 200W at 0.03% THD (10 dB better at half power). Yup, it was better.

It was also $3000 in 1982, four times the price of the Carver 1.5 that year. Sure, it was an integrated amp, but even if we take that part out (Kenwood's quite capable C1 preamp of the day was only $225), it was a LOT more expensive than Carver's amp.

That was Carver's innovation of the time--big amps did not need to be hopelessly expensive just to be big. Carver's reputation was based in part on the dollar-a-watt formula.

Rick "who voted for the Postman Panther" Denney

I like this point. If I understand it correctly, at the time, Carver was entering the market of the big expensive amps, Conrad Johnson Mark Levinson, Meridian, etc. he likes of which most of us couldn’t afford, and they were making decent power and running cool with adding a reduction in weight. Basically making an amp I could afford and sounded good to me. After I could afford bigger better stuff rated at the same power numbers I found the Carver didn’t have the balls or ooompf to carry the sound like the better stuff. Still none the less for entry level I thought it awesome. Still if this amp is able to be fixed or a workaround for those who may still own it and not able to afford a new one let ASR help those guys also with the knowledge available and offered here. I see that some are looking into the possible problems. To that I say great job. Awesome.

 

[Ranster]

Would you be willing to name some of those amps? Or just vintage amps that you recommend?

I asked the same question and got a rude reply. All the same he did reply with no names. I have power hungry Magnepan Tympani speakers and really wanted to know. He thought I was insincere.

 

[Ranster]

Normally, when are refurb is done on these units, ALL electrolytic caps are replaced, as well as all "flame" resistors. All contact points are cleaned, circuit boards are inspected all service manual alignments and updates are performed.

I think there are/were different levels of servicing offered. Money limits the level

 

[Ranster]

I have refreshed my share of Carver products.

The "stock" photo is indeed how it arrived from the factory.
You are correct that availability of original sourced components did change builds.
It was common for different product runs to have different cap configs in them.

I think caps transistors, inductors all kinds of parts could be or were different. As with manufacturing I believe many parts were sourced from where they could get them and from whom they could get them to meet production deadlines.

 

[beagleman]

They worked and lasted a long time. Would love to see someone send in the competition: Adcom GFA-555, Proton D1200, and a Hafler DH-500. A 1980s high power shootout.

I would add Harman Kardon in also.
When I did audio in the 80s they were one the brands I really liked in comparison to everything.

 

[Ze Frog]

Thanks Amir.

Pretty shocking the performance, but to be honest back then I guess who was measuring any of this stuff, manafacturers probably had a lot less incentive to engineer as long as it sounded passable by the ears of enough customers. To be honest though, if I had one of these back then I'm sure I would have cherished it, ignorance can be bliss I guess. Certainly interesting to see a lot of the older gear get put through actual testing, really makes me appreciate how far Hi-fi has come.

 

[Ranster]

Right now, I am listening to a refurbished Quad 405, a model that was first introduced in 1976. Admittedly it only delivers 2x100 watt rms at 8 Ohm, but the distortion is less than 0.01%.

Do you remember how much it was new? Was it a lot or affordable?

 

[Willem]

It was not particularly cheap, but value for money for something that at the time was high end, with very low distortion thanks to its innovative technology. In 1986 the US price was $650. I bought mine a few years ago second hand and fully professionally refurbished for 175 euros.

 

[Ranster]

It was not particularly cheap, but value for money for something that at the time was high end, with very low distortion thanks to its innovative technology. In 1986 the US price was $650. I bought mine a few years ago second hand and fully professionally refurbished for 175 euros.

So it’s a pretty good deal at what you paid. It has great reviews out there. I know certain companies produce a great thing every now and the . Seems you were able to grab one. Thanks for the reply. Ill
Keep It in mind in the future.

 

[antcollinet]

Measure your gear, fault find and repair first!

Absolutely.

 

[KEFCarver]

I have a small Youtube channel, Vintage Audio Review, that "specializes" in testing mainly older stereo gear to see how well it compares to its original specs. Some of it was really expensive at the time. As Restorer-john has pointed out, a lot of it still meets the requirements from decades ago. I also agree with him about the thinking that replacing all of the electrolytic caps is going to solve a lot of problems. Sure it may help for some pieces of gear, but I have tested caps that I pulled out of amps/receivers that are 40-50years old and they test fine for leakage, ESR and value, that the leakage is with the rated voltage applied. I have had very few "mains" electrolytics go open or actually have the electrolytic leak out. I am a fan of Carver, but the M400 cubes are ones that need all the electrolytics replaced if that has not been done yet. They are a nice amp for the most part. Soundcraftsmen makes a good amp that I think is undervalued. You can't go wrong with McIntosh amps if you can find a nice used one. Older Crown amps like the DC150's are good. The Sansui AU7700 is a great integrated amp if it meets your power requirements. I am only talking about "vintage" gear. Some of the small amps by Aiyima and Fosi work well and sound very good (I have only listened to Aiyima).....

 

[Ranster]

I have a small Youtube channel, Vintage Audio Review, that "specializes" in testing mainly older stereo gear to see how well it compares to its original specs. Some of it was really expensive at the time. As Restorer-john has pointed out, a lot of it still meets the requirements from decades ago. I also agree with him about the thinking that replacing all of the electrolytic caps is going to solve a lot of problems. Sure it may help for some pieces of gear, but I have tested caps that I pulled out of amps/receivers that are 40-50years old and they test fine for leakage, ESR and value, that the leakage is with the rated voltage applied. I have had very few "mains" electrolytics go open or actually have the electrolytic leak out. I am a fan of Carver, but the M400 cubes are ones that need all the electrolytics replaced if that has not been done yet. They are a nice amp for the most part. Soundcraftsmen makes a good amp that I think is undervalued. You can't go wrong with McIntosh amps if you can find a nice used one. Older Crown amps like the DC150's are good. The Sansui AU7700 is a great integrated amp if it meets your power requirements. I am only talking about "vintage" gear. Some of the small amps by Aiyima and Fosi work well and sound very good (I have only listened to Aiyima).....

Wow! Thank you for the list of gear to look into. It will definitely help.

 

[DSJR]

So it’s a pretty good deal at what you paid. It has great reviews out there. I know certain companies produce a great thing every now and the . Seems you were able to grab one. Thanks for the reply. Ill
Keep It in mind in the future.

I have owned two Quad 405-2's in my time and seen many others internally. My two were under fifteen years old when I had them and BOTH had leaky supply caps with little mountains of electrolyte piled on top. Quad said the same thing used to happen in the previous 303 early production units as the terminals were on th ebottom and leaked out all over the amp board underneath as they 'breathed' in use. The 303's I've seen (and my own 303s) had them standing up with terminals on top, as the 405's were made. We had a wonderfully caring engineer who ran a spotless workbench and who did all our repairs, bemoaning back then that so much gear was going to the tip or scrapyard if it failed as back then, nbobody wanted it

Both my 405's had than affordable mk2 boards fitted (a must with non-Quad speakers as protection was tamed a little and the circuit layout was better optimised I was told), fresh supply caps (no idea how they'd be thirty years on from the time I owned them) , the original clamping circuit was removed as it was fitted on the mk2 boards and 4mm sockets were fitted to replace the nip-up terminals. RCA's were also professionally fitted. These days, a used 405 plus refirb would cost the same as the rather superior 606 model range, but these latter ones (the breeze-block shape is ALL I can fault in the design really) just seem to run and run and again, are easily serviced. The current rather delightful 'trad' Artera Stereo amp is basically a poshed up 606 with not major tweaks I gather apart from the balanced input stage.

P.S. I suspect that the latest generation of chip-amps would easily see off a 405 of either generation (4 ohm drive and sinad, the Quad being about the same in the midrange as these chip amps at 10kHz I suspect) but the 606 models should beat the distortion by 20dB I believe from tests I've seen )-95dB as against -70dB or so in the 405 designs as tested in HiFi Choice of the early 80s. All pretty inaudible but I posit this if specs mean all even on used gear.

 

[Angsty]

I have had 20 year old Bryston gear that tests as new after a trip to their shop. I did have a couple of switches replaced but not interior electronics. The models were BP-25DA and 4B-ST. I also had a BP-1.5 whose “ground points were tightened up”. I buy used Bryston gear because their shop can repair virtually any component that they have made.