Canton Reference 2023 - is it now Reference grade?

[Crosstalk]

Certainly even is better, but a lot of people like that room excitement (bipolars...). I prefer my Revels (and even Harbeths) over KEFs, and I think that's the primary difference. Although my old KEFs were great for Video.

Revels are even dispersing even though they are wide. I dont know how you look Harbeth or any snake oil british company of that sort alongside a Revel!

 

[ahofer]

Revels are even dispersing even though they are wide. I dont know how you look Harbeth or any snake oil british company of that sort alongside a Revel!

Disagree on Harbeth, certainly the "snake oil" part. Shaw is one of the few openly science-based (mostly) spokespersons (see my signature quote from him), and the more recent models are nicely flat on-axis. I agree Harbeth high end dispersion is F'd up, (gap in the presence region and chaotic way up) but solid through the critical midrange and gives a pleasing, clean, enveloping sound. What can I tell you, I own Revel F228Be and Harbeth SHL5+AE and I enjoy them both, with position-specific EQ applied. The Revels are far more flexible in terms of listening position. The Harbeths are a good speaker for my NYC apartment (see my photo avatar with my cat in the listening position), while the Revels fill a large and reflective modern 'great room' in my weekend place.

If you visit the Harbeth forum, you'll see Shaw inveighing about cable nonsense, break-in nonsense, amplifier nonsense, etc. He does engage in some hand-waving about driver materials, and you'll notice directivity is rarely discussed (moderated out). Their view on resonances is debatable, but he debates it on audible thresholds and physical realities, not magical qualities or inaudible quantitities. I'd say he's an objectivist stuck optimizing older technologies, but they've optimized quite well.

 

[Crosstalk]

Disagree on Harbeth, certainly the "snake oil" part. Shaw is one of the few openly science-based (mostly) spokespersons (see my signature quote from him), and the more recent models are nicely flat on-axis. I agree Harbeth high end dispersion is F'd up, (gap in the presence region and chaotic way up) but solid through the critical midrange and gives a pleasing, clean, enveloping sound. What can I tell you, I own Revel F228Be and Harbeth SHL5+AE and I enjoy them both, with position-specific EQ applied. The Revels are far more flexible in terms of listening position. The Harbeths are a good speaker for my NYC apartment (see my photo avatar with my cat in the listening position), while the Revels fill a large and reflective modern 'great room' in my weekend place.

If you visit the Harbeth forum, you'll see Shaw inveighing about cable nonsense, break-in nonsense, amplifier nonsense, etc. He does engage in some hand-waving about driver materials, and you'll notice directivity is rarely discussed (moderated out). Their view on resonances is debatable, but he debates it on audible thresholds and physical realities, not magical qualities or inaudible quantitities. I'd say he's an objectivist stuck optimizing older technologies, but they've optimized quite well.

If you say Harbeths are nice, then you have to agree 100s of broken speakers measured here are nice too! On a personal level I never found the Canton References to be any different from Harbeths, but from measurements we know that is not the truth.

 

[ahofer]

If you say Harbeths are nice, then you have to agree 100s of broken speakers measured here are nice too!

That's some pretty crap logic.

To repurpose a phrase from Tolstoy, all perfect speakers are alike, but all flawed speakers are flawed in their own way.

 

[DP80]

Sold my 9Ks last year. Since then I've had Triangle Duetto, Devore 0/93 & Magnepan 1.7i. Of these, the 1.7i are the best to my ears. However, none matched the 9K for overall SQ & long-term listening pleasure. As a result, I have ordered a pair of the new Ref 9s and should have by the end of April.

 

[dogmamann]

Sold my 9Ks last year. Since then I've had Triangle Duetto, Devore 0/93 & Magnepan 1.7i. Of these, the 1.7i are the best to my ears. However, none matched the 9K for overall SQ & long-term listening pleasure. As a result, I have ordered a pair of the new Ref 9s and should have by the end of April.

I demoed the new reference 3 and had listened the reference 3k before. The new reference 2023 series is way better in terms of fine resolution, smoothness and there is literally zero audible resonances. The rounded cabinets are now sounding like there is no cabin present. My kef reference doesn’t stand a chance to that with its square box with its boomy bass. It’s just 10 years old design but how much canton is better over the Kef in the same price bracket is mid blogging.

 

[Ze Frog]

'Reference grade' compared to what? Doesn't look overly impressive.

 

[dogmamann]

'Reference grade' compared to what? Doesn't look overly impressive.

Compared to something like KEF reference series

 

[Ze Frog]

Compared to something like KEF reference series

The measurements don't look super impressive. Saying that though some speakers don't measure well but actually sound amazing and having not heard these I can't really judge. Sadly I'm very skeptical of high end brands, but that's something the industry has kind of done to itself.

 

[dogmamann]

The measurements don't look super impressive. Saying that though some speakers don't measure well but actually sound amazing and having not heard these I can't really judge. Sadly I'm very skeptical of high end brands, but that's something the industry has kind of done to itself.

To me it looks super impressive. It’s subjective

 

[Tassin]

Can you share the measurements? I really like their looks, but don't want to buy without having looked at the measurements.

 

[dogmamann]

when it is able to play subsonic content on a recording which isn't supposed to be on the recording in the first place? Sorry, no offence at all, but to me this is audiophile nonsense.

Speed Test​

Where did this come from? Where did they mention that they can play subsonic content which is not present in the recording?

 

[DP80]

New Canton Reference 9 arrived about two weeks ago and are fully broken-in and sounding great sounding great with Rhino's pressing of Eric Clapton's "nothing but the blues" this morning. Very pleased.
If anyone wants to loan me the microphone & software I'll be happy to measure their performance in my room.

 

[totti1965]

Are you from Germany?

 

[DP80]

No. But, I visited Stuttgart (Porsche, MB & IBM) once upon a time.

 

[dogmamann]

New Canton Reference 9 arrived about two weeks ago and are fully broken-in and sounding great. Very pleased. Sounding great with Rhino's pressing of Eric Clapton's "nothing but the blues" this morning.
If anyone wants to loan me the microphone & software I'll be happy to measure their performance in my room.
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I listened to the Reference 5 some weeks back and was really impressed on how they sounded. To me these has literally no hint of boxiness in sound.

 

[Bozon]

Canton seems to pair very well with McIntosh Amps. I haven't tried that combination but I remember a video from a guy that commented that.

 

[DP80]

Yes, The Ref 9K's were very happy with Cary tubes and McIntosh MA8950. The Ref 9 are very happy with the MA8950. Once I get around to rearranging everything I'll try them with tubes.

 

[dogmamann]

Canton seems to pair very well with McIntosh Amps. I haven't tried that combination but I remember a video from a guy that commented that.

Mac and audio research works well with them. To be Frank most German brands work well with them. @Bozon welcome back !

 

[bodhi]

I haven't tried but I heard that Hypex Ncore NC252MP amps work great with Cantons. I remember some dudes in some forum commented that all functional amps driven within their limits have a great synergy with [insert any speaker].