Buckeye 3 Channel Purifi Amp Review

[dualazmak]

I would love to see actual evidence for that statement.

Sorry I do not have "my" objective evidences since I am not an professional audio engineer and I do not have any of the advanced measurement gears.
I have so many subjective experiences for that through my subjective listening comparisons in my home audio environments, though.

 

[dualazmak]

Some threads at DIYaudio looked into the relative amount of power required for amps driving midrange and tweeter compared to woofer and subs in an active setup. There is also some info from Rob Elliot on the topic in which he looked at the average power as a function of frequency contained in several music tracks of differeing music styles - he found it to be highest for the midrange band. The power required certainly depends on the sensitivity of each driver, and that will change from design to design and typically the midrange above 500Hz and tweeter have higher sensitivity compared to a woofer. As a result, the demands of the tweeter and midrange typically require lower average power but not lower peak power. This in turn relates more to the required power supply capabilities than amplifier module power rating. In terms of a linear PS it would mean that you could use a transformer with a significantly lower VA rating, but still having the same secondary voltage as that for other channels e.g. the woofer.

Yes, I essentially agree with you, and your point would support my final amplifier selection in my setup; please refer to here and here.
I use rather powerful Yamaha A-S3000 driving woofers, and also powerful Accuphase E-460 driving high-efficiency Beryllium midrange domes.

BTW, this post would be also our reference for use of rather small amps for tweeters and super-tweeters in multichannel multi-driver active setup;
- Even Greg Timbers uses "reasonable and budget" Pioneer Elite A-20 for compression drivers (super tweeters) in his extraordinary expensive multichannel stereo system with JBL Everest DD67000 which he himself designed and developed: #435

 

[Julf]

Sorry I do not have "my" objective evidences since I am not an professional audio engineer and I do not have any of the advanced measurement gears.
I have so many subjective experiences for that through my subjective listening comparisons in my home audio environments, though.

Your subjective impression is noted, just wondering what pro gear it is based on, as you stated that you aren't that familiar with pro gear.

 

[Bubbagump]

I would love to see actual evidence for that statement. It is a common part of audiophile folklore, but...

Something I actually know about and can come out of lurk mode - PA gear is built to fundamentally different goals. An example being frequency response. PA speakers will be built for power handling, consistent horn coverage over a specified area, throw, etc. So I need to know a coverage area to be able to design a line array for a room more than I need flat. With Hifi we’ll accept some lobing as we are going to toe in or whatever to accommodate a small listening area. A PA, I want constant coverage to get as much “good enough” as I can.

Also, power amps in pro sound have a lot more in line which adds artifacts - built in EQs, more robust protection circuitry, the ability to run for hours in a hot parking lot…

All that to say, many of the specs we look for in hifi don’t matter in live sound. I’ll take a CD horn with even coverage over a rule flat response. Your question is borne out simply by looking at the spec sheets.

However, the gap has narrowed a ton over the past 20 years as designs and computer modeling have improved. Even a junky $300 Chinese off brand 15” active PA speaker destroys its 1970s equivalent.

 

[Julf]

However, the gap has narrowed a ton over the past 20 years as designs and computer modeling have improved. Even a junky $300 Chinese off brand 15” active PA speaker destroys its 1970s equivalent.

That is kind of my point. PA has improved a lot in the last 20 years. And not all pro audio is PA. Pro audio is also used in studios and broadcast. Some of that gear is just as good as domestic HiFi.

 

[Bubbagump]

That is kind of my point. PA has improved a lot in the last 20 years. And not all pro audio is PA. Pro audio is also used in studios and broadcast. Some of that gear is just as good as domestic HiFi.

Ah, if you include studio and broadcast, for sure. Studio monitoring has gotten ridiculously good and I’d agree, except for the most esoteric and edge case high end, monitoring is neck and neck with hifi. The days of NS10s somehow creating pain to force you into a great mix in the car are long gone.

Edit: more to your point, put a pair of Barefoots up against LS50Metas… the Barefoots will “stomp”.

 

[EJ3]

Sorry I do not have "my" objective evidences since I am not an professional audio engineer and I do not have any of the advanced measurement gears.
I have so many subjective experiences for that through my subjective listening comparisons in my home audio environments, though.

Many times subjective experiences = "Empirical Knowledge" that the engineers MAY (and MAY not in our life time) eventually figure out how to measure and create formulas for.

 

[Julf]

Ah, if you include studio and broadcast, for sure. Studio monitoring has gotten ridiculously good and I’d agree, except for the most esoteric and edge case high end, monitoring is neck and neck with hifi. The days of NS10s somehow creating pain to force you into a great mix in the car are long gone.

Right - i am surprised how much of my listening is on the Genelecs these days.

 

[Julf]

Many times subjective experiences = "Empirical Knowledge" that the engineers MAY (and MAY not in our life time) eventually figure out how to measure and create formulas for.

Yes, some times, rather than many. Meanwhile scientists and researchers have found out how fallible human senses and especially our interpretation of what we sense is, and realized an overwhelming majority of subjective perceptions are formed between the ears rather than by what reaches our ears. That is why we need objective verification.

 

[EJ3]

Yes, some times, rather than many. Meanwhile scientists and researchers have found out how fallible human senses and especially our interpretation of what we sense is, and realized an overwhelming majority of subjective perceptions are formed between the ears rather than by what reaches our ears. That is why we need objective verification.

I guess that may depend on the field that we are dealing with.

 

[Julf]

I guess that may depend on the field that we are dealing with.

I think the field we are dealing with here is audio.

 

[EJ3]

I think the field we are dealing with here is audio.

Yes, here we are dealing with audio.
It seems that we have the measurements of audio down fairly well.
But dualazmak has a unique audio case.
My statement was generalization to indicate that there are may other instances in all different fields in which there are cases like this, that the scientists, engineers, etc: do not yet know why a particular something, done in a particular way works as well as it does (& in some cases, they don't know why it works at all).

 

[Too Many Notes]

Not to be a party-pooper, but what does any of this have to do with this thread topic? And don't say it all has to do with sound

 

[dualazmak]

Your subjective impression is noted, just wondering what pro gear it is based on, as you stated that you aren't that familiar with pro gear.

Thank you for your interest. I am sorry we are getting a little bit out of the scope on this thread, but let me respond as follows...

I once intensively "subjectively" compared a pro (PA?) 4-Ch amp Yamaha XM4080 with my Accuphase E-460 in my audio system at my home listening environment (not shared in detail on my project thread, though). The difference in sound quality was really easily audible by myself and my wife.

Then I also intensively compared 11-Ch AV amp Yamaha MX-A5200 (Class-AB) with my Accupahse E-460 in my audio setup at my home listening environments; you can find the details in my post here. As I also recently wrote here;
1. I could re-confirm the superiority (compared to MX-A5200), in all aspects of Sound Quality, of my Reference Sound system mainly thanks to the very nice ACCUPHASE E460, and also thanks to the fully renovated LC-network, still excellent YAMAHA-NS1000's WO, SQ and TW, together with SW YST-SW1000 and ST FOSTEX T925A.
2. I should be very much careful enough in deciding the possible multichannel amplifier(s) in my project. The total Sound Quality and power of such multichannel amplifier(s) should be about the same or superior to ACCUPHASE E-460 (in passive single amp configuration).

These "early" amp comparison strongly urged/encouraged me to proceed into long and intensive amplifier exploration journey in my project; you can find the Hyperlink Index for my project thread here and here.

 

[dualazmak]

Not to be a party-pooper, but what does any of this have to do with this thread topic? And don't say it all has to do with sound

Noted and well understood.
Let's discuss regarding the topic of amp selection on my project thread or on some other remote threads.

On this thread, I would like to return to my reference post here on "non-magnetizable metals".

 

[Too Many Notes]

I’d like to thank Dylan for his psychic divination and wizarding abilities. Not only did he somehow surmise that today is my birthday, he also made sure the amp was delivered this afternoon. Everything looks good and initial listening impressions are very positive.

Edit: No issues so far with the Monoprice cables

 

[droid2000]

I’d like to thank Dylan for his psychic divination and wizarding abilities. Not only did he somehow surmise that today is my birthday, he also made sure the amp was delivered this afternoon. Everything looks good and initial listening impressions are very positive.

Edit: No issues so far with the Monoprice cables

Noice. Which amp did you get?

 

[Too Many Notes]

Noice. Which amp did you get?

I went with the 3-channel. Did a rough Dirac calibration this morning and just casual listening so far, but seems to be doing its job and doing it well. I’ll have more time to test and push it this weekend. Loving how cool it runs. I wonder if space is even needed around the unit. Tempted to place it vertically next to my AVR and out of sight… anybody know if vertical orientation is not advisable? More cable strain on the “highest” connector maybe? I am admittedly new at this.

 

[droid2000]

Loving how cool it runs. I wonder if space is even needed around the unit.

I put the 2-channel version of his Purifi amp inside a small cabinet about 8" H x 12" W x 30" L. No ventilation except for a couple of small holes for cables. It runs cool although I don't run it super hard.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

I have an AC Infinity Aircom sitting on top of my 3ch Purifi set to come on when the inside temperature reaches 86F....it has yet to turn on even when I watch movies near reference (and the 3ch is running my LCR)