Bluesound Node Icon (Quick User Measurements)

[GXAlan]

Not yet out,but it seems that Wiim also suffers the child diseases of half-baked EQ down low.
Let's wait a little to see.

Does that mean that you have measured it? I have the original WiiM Pro (non Plus) but probably don’t have time to test it. Much more annoying when there is no USB DAC mode.

 

[Sokel]

Does that mean that you have measured it? I have the original WiiM Pro (non Plus) but probably don’t have time to test it. Much more annoying when there is no USB DAC mode.

No,not by me,I wouldn't be confident to announce it as a solid review (I would say "short of" if it was by me,as usual) but I believe someone was convinced after all this repeated results to test it there.
But,we have to wait.

 

[GXAlan]

Here's the WiiM Pro. SINAD of 88.4 dB. Applying EQ does not seem to affect the results unless I overload it with something like a +10 dB boost.

But the 88.4 dB SINAD is worse than the Node Icon with Dirac enabled, and the Dirac calculation may be worse than expected since the ideal room correction may have ringing which is detectable with the 1 kHz test tone. Anyway, it does show that there's opportunity for Bluesound to improve their tone controls.

 

[Sokel]

Here's the WiiM Pro. SINAD of 88.4 dB. Applying EQ does not seem to affect the results unless I overload it with something like a +10 dB boost.

But the 88.4 dB SINAD is worse than the Node Icon with Dirac enabled, and the Dirac calculation may be worse than expected since the ideal room correction may have ringing which is detectable with the 1 kHz test tone. Anyway, it does show that there's opportunity for Bluesound to improve their tone controls.

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A well informed post here:

Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

Topping slowly coming for RME Well, not really. Just look how long RME products are on the market, when (and why) there are design changes and how long products are supported. This is second to none.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Is noise that he's talking about here of course,but the practice to check performance is measuring close to the applied filters as it seems.

Is the -28dBFS level because of using the Scaler?

 

[GXAlan]

Is the -20dB level because of using the Scaler?

it is because I am NOT using the scaler. Good catch. I had volume limiter on the WiiM and just thought I had the E1DA in the wrong mode. Quick test again.

Now, the way I do this is to play a 1 kHz test tone that I then sample. What's interesting is that if you try to boost the 1 kHz GEQ, it doesn't actually boost the signal. It's goes from -8dBFS to -8 dBFS, which means it's not actually working right. If you're using negative dB for your EQ, it would be different -- but if you think about the WiiM auto-EQ, it's not smart enough to just do negative corrections -- it does +/- and it's up to you to make sure you don't clip, it seems.

 

[Sokel]

Well, most of these streamer OS's are built on variations of Linux and presumably utilise the available audio toolchains as far as possible. Otherwise why use Linux in the first place? So it's not surprising they have similar issues ...

I wouldn't narrow it only at the software side of things.
Sometimes the same qualities are evident even at the pure analog side.

Example,a cheap one and a nicer one,both el.analog ones.
Same slopes,same x-over point,same levels,same measuring rig.

While at 80Hz seem close...


cheap


nicer

...at 20Hz the bigger boy has a better performance:



cheap



nicer

So,it's the overall quality that makes performance down low despite if everything seems nice at 1kHz as usual.

(edit:disclaimer,the nicer one may have way better perfomance,what's shown here is basically the max of the measuring rig)

 

[somebodyelse]

Well, most of these streamer OS's are built on variations of Linux and presumably utilise the available audio toolchains as far as possible. Otherwise why use Linux in the first place? So it's not surprising they have similar issues ...

They will all use alsa for the driver layer, but beyond that there is a lot of choice. Your pipeline could be a raw alsa config, pulseaudio, JACK or pipewire. The software EQ thread lists many options for convolvers, and there are a multitude of EQ plugins via LADSPA, VST and more. It may be the proprietary bits from the likes of MQA and Dirac force them down a particular route though. Similar issues would imply either a fundamental alsa issue, common choices, or independent implementations having the same issue.

 

[Rja4000]

It may be the proprietary bits from the likes of MQA and Dirac force them down a particular route though.

That's not the problem here.
The very same issue is present on the Node N100 (first Node generation).

 

[GXAlan]

That's not the problem here.
The very same issue is present on the Node N100 (first Node generation).

I wonder if it occurs with stuff like the NAD M66.

Bluesound started off just as a consumer brand in 2013 and has slowly moved upmarket as the mainstream market has gotten more crowded (and better). I bet a lot of the code is legacy code that hasn’t been updated.

 

[Rja4000]

I wonder if it occurs with stuff like the NAD M66.

Bluesound started off just as a consumer brand in 2013 and has slowly moved upmarket as the mainstream market has gotten more crowded (and better). I bet a lot of the code is legacy code that hasn’t been updated.

I have a NAD M50.
I will give it a try.

 

[Truder]

Can you tell me wich is the L pin from the Node Icon power inlet.
I did messuer it with my fluke but I couldn't find a difference after switching around the powercable to find the phase.

 

[Sokel]

Can you tell me wich is the L pin from the Node Icon power inlet.
I did messuer it with my fluke but I couldn't find a difference after switching around the powercable to find the phase.

Oh, now I see it's a class II product probably, 2-prong only input.
To your question, Live SHOULD be the right one as we look the device at the back.

 

[Truder]

Oh, nu zie ik dat het waarschijnlijk een klasse II-product is, met alleen een 2-pins ingang.
Op je vraag zou Live de juiste moeten zijn, aangezien we het apparaat van achteren bekijken.

Thank You

 

[pogo]

Here's an analog recording of the XLR output for those who want to use Dirac to apply EQ as opposed to room correction (since the headphone out applies Dirac)

Will this still work via the headphone output after today's update?

 

[pogo]

Here are some inside views and measured values:

 

[pogo]

Additional inside views: Link

And here...

 

[sapphari]

Additional inside views: Link

I hope no one buys that product!

 

[pogo]

Too late
Have you heard the Icon yet?

 

[sapphari]

I own the Icon! I was talking about the upgrade kit.

 

[pogo]

OK, my mistake
But I would be interested in a comparison with/without the upgrade kit.