How good is the Pre-amp from bluesound node icon?

[Truder]

I have :
Rotel rb-990bx and rc-995bx .
Dynaudio special twenty-five.
Rel s510 sub.
Bluesound node icon.
I am thinking about buying a full dirac licence and for calibration the sub has to be connected to the node.
At this moment I have the Icon direct connected to the Rotel rb-990bx power amp without using the rc-995bx pre amp. Before I did use it a few weeks with the rotel preamp connected.
I did compare with and without the Rotel pre amp and maybe its the time I need between cable switching , but my old ears don't hear a big expected difference between this two pre amps. It does sound fantastic in both ways.
what is your experience when using the icon as pre amp?

 

[GXAlan]

I did compare with and without the Rotel pre amp and maybe its the time I need between cable switching , but my old ears don't hear a big expected difference between this two pre amps. It does sound fantastic in both ways.

what is your experience when using the icon as pre amp?

The Node Icon in native mode is very good and beats the Fosi ZD3 when looking at XLR outputs. At least when I tried measuring it, the distortion on the RCA is much higher but still 0.002% or so.

Bluesound Node Icon (Quick User Measurements)

Bluesound Node Icon (Quick User Measurements) I know @amirm has a Node Icon in the queue, and I'll let him run the full suite of tests including the THX AAA headphone amp tests, but here are some quick measurements for everyone. The Node Icon is the flagship of the current Bluesound line-up...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I use the Node Icon straight into active speakers which is your preamp mode. One of the keys is that your Rotel has an input sensitivity of 1V which means that at 100% volume, you will actually be clipping the output of your amplifier.

So, in the volume settings of your app, you will want to specify that the maximum volume is -6 dB to avoid clipping. In many cases, this is way too loud anyway and you can put the max volume even lower.

At least in my measurement, it’s a very low noise preamp which means it should beat even a premium setup. The only reason to integrate the Rotel preamp is if you need input switching, etc.

I haven’t tested the line in of the Node Icon, but it might also be very good.

 

[Truder]

The Node Icon in native mode is very good and beats the Fosi ZD3 when looking at XLR outputs. At least when I tried measuring it, the distortion on the RCA is much higher but still 0.002% or so.

Bluesound Node Icon (Quick User Measurements)

Bluesound Node Icon (Quick User Measurements) I know @amirm has a Node Icon in the queue, and I'll let him run the full suite of tests including the THX AAA headphone amp tests, but here are some quick measurements for everyone. The Node Icon is the flagship of the current Bluesound line-up...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I use the Node Icon straight into active speakers which is your preamp mode. One of the keys is that your Rotel has an input sensitivity of 1V which means that at 100% volume, you will actually be clipping the output of your amplifier.

So, in the volume settings of your app, you will want to specify that the maximum volume is -6 dB to avoid clipping. In many cases, this is way too loud anyway and you can put the max volume even lower.

At least in my measurement, it’s a very low noise preamp which means it should beat even a premium setup. The only reason to integrate the Rotel preamp is if you need input switching, etc.

I haven’t tested the line in of the Node Icon, but it might also be very good.

I have limited the maximum volume to -15 DB.



The rotel rc-995bx was a high-end expensive model preamp and made with the best parts in the late 90s and therefore it was a big and unexpected surprise for me not to hear a worse sound with the Icon as preamp. In fact, after listening to the Node as a preamplifier for a week with the Node, it now seems to me that it sounds even better than this high-end Rotel pre.

I find it not really surprising that the Icon beats the Fosi Z3 given the cheap price segment of the Fosi.

 

[GXAlan]

I have limited the maximum volume to -15 DB.

Perfect

In fact, after listening to the Node as a preamplifier for a week with the Node, it now seems to me that it sounds even better than this high-end Rotel pre.

The Node is ultra low noise which is really incredible. Bluesound has historically had mediocre analog performance but they really pulled out all of the stops with the Node Icon. It might even match something like the NAD M66.

I find it not really surprising that the Icon beats the Fosi Z3 given the cheap price segment of the Fosi.

Sort of. Bluesound has real global customer service, warranty, well paid engineers in Canada, a full Linux based streamer and iOS/Android ecosystem and doesn’t rely on de minimis duty exemptionsz

The Fosi ZD3 is a focused DAC with a lot of the same design philosophy including a single ESS9039Q2M (as opposed to two) and true balanced XLR out.

 

[Truder]

Perfect


The Node is ultra low noise which is really incredible. Bluesound has historically had mediocre analog performance but they really pulled out all of the stops with the Node Icon. It might even match something like the NAD M66.




Sort of. Bluesound has real global customer service, warranty, well paid engineers in Canada, a full Linux based streamer and iOS/Android ecosystem and doesn’t rely on de minimis duty exemptionsz

The Fosi ZD3 is a focused DAC with a lot of the same design philosophy including a single ESS9039Q2M (as opposed to two) and true balanced XLR out.

Unfortunately, my Rotel rb-990bx has no XLR connectors and only rca. So I can't test XLR. The Rotel preamp does have XLR, but only line out.

Incidentally, I recently read in a review that the RCA output of the Icon clearly sounds better than via XLR.

 

[mr_bill]

@Truder what review did you read that cited the rca outputs better than xlr - id like to read it.

 

[GXAlan]

Incidentally, I recently read in a review that the RCA output of the Icon clearly sounds better than via XLR.

@Truder what review did you read that cited the rca outputs better than xlr - id like to read it.

Bluesound Node Icon: A Streamer Worth Stretching Your Budget For | The Ear

I initially set up the Node Icon in my bedroom via wifi and the listened with the Sendy Peacock headphones that I usually use with a Chord 2Go/Hugo2

the-ear.net

All of the streamers fed a stellar, all-Italian amp and speaker combo from Audia Flight and Chario.
…
at least in this setup, proved significantly superior to the XLR output. Despite the XLR cables used here considerably outgunning the RCAs, I found the RCA output to be smoother and had far superior timing. Your experience may be different, but mine certainly proved that this comparison was worthwhile.

 

[Truder]

Bluesound Node Icon: A Streamer Worth Stretching Your Budget For | The Ear

I initially set up the Node Icon in my bedroom via wifi and the listened with the Sendy Peacock headphones that I usually use with a Chord 2Go/Hugo2

the-ear.net

All of the streamers fed a stellar, all-Italian amp and speaker combo from Audia Flight and Chario.
…
at least in this setup, proved significantly superior to the XLR output. Despite the XLR cables used here considerably outgunning the RCAs, I found the RCA output to be smoother and had far superior timing. Your experience may be different, but mine certainly proved that this comparison was worthwhile.

That's the one .

 

[GXAlan]

That's the one .

Thinking about it, there are single ended amplifiers that offer XLR inputs for convenience. This introduces one more thing in the signal path.

The Accuphase E-270 has this issue.

Review and Measurements of Accuphase E-270 Amplifier

This is a review and detailed measurements of Accuphase E-270 Integrated Amplifier. It is on kind loan from our friends at Gig Harbor Audio. It is their demo unit so I have to return it on Tuesday. So if you need something else to be measured, ask right away! The E-270 was released in 2017 I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In contrast, something that is fully balanced internally (like the Marantz PM-10 and Model 10) or certain active speakers benefit from having XLR.

 

[Truder]

This afternoon, together with a good friend, I once again compared my rotel preamp with the Icon as a preamp. My friend is the conductor of a fanfare and plays in a jazz band himself.

He was immediately very positive about the better performance of the node icon as a preamplifier and he was also very surprised by the audible positive difference.

We have compared several preamps from the top class of Rotel in the past and the rc-995bx was the winner.

The Rotel pre is moved to the bedroom after today.



In my listening room I use a Hegel h600 with built-in streamer and dac.

 

[mr_bill]

@Truder

It would really be interesting to hear how the node icon streamer Dac compares to your Hegel 600!

 

[pogo]

He was immediately very positive about the better performance of the node icon as a preamplifier and he was also very surprised by the audible positive difference.

The Icon uses MQA QRONO for a better representation, see also here: Link

 

[pogo]

The only reason to integrate the Rotel preamp is if you need input switching

If necessary, additional inputs can also be made available via a Bluesound HUB. Up to 4 remote HUBs can be integrated.

 

[ISchmidt]

I'm using the Line-In from my Node Icon for a phono preamp and I have a crystal clear sound there.
Since my former system was based on a H390 I'm also interested to know how the H600 compares to the combo Rotel+Icon.
Additionaly to the clear sound I have the feeling that the Icon creates a more spacial listening experience.
I'm still impressed with this box!

 

[Truder]

My Rel s510 subwoofer doesn't wake up from standby when connected with a rca cable between Lfe from Rel to sub out from my Icon.
It wil start ny sub only after raising up the volume to very loud.

When I did use the Rel high level connection to the poweramp speakercable therminals the Rel wil switch to on immediately.
Also, connected this way the lowest bas is better and deeper.
Would it be possible to change the sub output gain from the node icon?

 

[sapphari]

Would it be possible to change the sub output gain from the node icon?

The app had this function before the update that came with Dirac support. Now, it does not have a sub out level. I gave feedback to Bluesound but my guess is this was an intentional change and will not be reversed.

 

[voodooless]

That's the one .

I would ignore all of the subjective sound impressions. Without any decent controls, they are all just fantasy. The fact that they use a network filter should already raise all kinds of red flags. And why not just name the cheapest streamer in the “test”? Likely it’s the WiiM ultra. The price matches, as well as the cable difficulties:

Switching to the third machine, which retails for £349, is where things got interesting and shows why it is worth spending the extra cash on the Node Icon. Via this system, the cheaper machine was revealed to be suitable for background listening at best.

This is simply ridiculous, given that the device is fully transparent. All the subjective stuff is nonsense!

This afternoon, together with a good friend, I once again compared my rotel preamp with the Icon as a preamp. My friend is the conductor of a fanfare and plays in a jazz band himself.

He was immediately very positive about the better performance of the node icon as a preamplifier and he was also very surprised by the audible positive difference.

Being a conductor doesn’t make one magically immune to biases. If you do these comparisons, at the very bare minimum you’ll need to level match the devices to within .1 dB of volume. Otherwise volume differences will trump anything else.

 

[Theodorus]

@Truder

Het zou erg interessant zijn om te horen hoe de Node Icon Streamer Dac zich verhoudt tot jouw Hegel 600!

Today I did compare the icon dac vs the h600 dac.

 

[mr_bill]

@Theodorus

Great! I for one, would love to hear what your impressions were and what you thought and how your are enjoying the Node Icon. Please share more

 

[Theodorus]

@Theodorus

Great! I for one, would love to hear what your impressions were and what you thought and how your are enjoying the Node Icon. Please share more

First I connected the node icon with my Ruconnected rca cables to my h600.
But the dac from the H600 did sound more open and the sound was much better. Rca did sound more compressed.

Than a friend off my brought me 2 cheap XlR cables wich he does use for his when they play with their jazz band.
He came bye to listne in a blind test when I did compare the hegel dac by playing tidal over hegel connect vs the icon playing tidal over his 3m long XLR cables. He couldn't tell me blind listening wich one was playing, the icon or the h600. For me it also was not possible to say wich dac was playing
We both didn't expect this, but we couldn't hear any difference between this 2 dacs. So the Icon does have a very good dac.
I do have another audiofriend and he told me he likes to hear this himself when he does come to visit me. He does have very good ears and he always does hear some very small improvements or cable changes.

I gone order some better XLR cables from Grimm and I already did buy a second hand h390 wich also does have xlr inlets.
So my Rotel rb990 wil be compared with rca connected to the icon vs the h390 wich wil be connected with xlr to the icon. The winner from that battle may stay in my second audio set.