Bluesound Node Icon Streamer Review

[pjug]

Why do some of the Soundstage frequency response graphs show a sharp filter? They note the discrepancy but I didn't see them explain why, if they knew.
edit: i am not sure they are sharp filters, even though he calls them 'brick-wall'. The blue trace is 3db down at about 22Khz, same as Amir's graph.

 

[pogo]

As I understand it, the approach is a dynamic and conjugate filtering.

 

[pjug]

As I understand it, the approach is a dynamic and conjugate filtering.

My understanding of what they mean by dynamic is just that different filters are applied at different sampling rates. But not applied based on characteristics of the music or anything like that.

 

[pogo]

@Archimago or @pkane already know more about this.

 

[pjug]

On the 0dB signal overload question -- does the Icon have a setting to
allow you to create headroom? I assume yes if you use Direc Live, but do you have to pay extra to get that?

 

[pogo]

Maybe you can activate the tone controls and leave them at 0dB.

 

[JustJones]

On the 0dB signal overload question -- does the Icon have a setting to
allow you to create headroom? I assume yes if you use Direc Live, but do you have to pay extra to get that?

Are you using digital passthrough? If you're using the Node volume then I can't imagine you would ever need to worry about going to 0db. If you are using digital passthrough then you would set headroom with the external dac or device performing PEQ. Anyway if you've set passthrough here's what the manual says.

DIGITAL PASSTHROUGH When Digital Passthrough is turned ON, BluOS sends the original audio stream directly to an external DAC, bypassing
BluOS’s internal MQA decoder.

Note: To enable Digital Passthrough, you should enable the Output level fixed and disable – Tone Controls and Replay Gain.

OUTPUT LEVEL FIXED Enable to set and fix the volume of the NODE ICON at the maximum level. This allows you to control the volume using the
external device connected to the NODE ICON instead of the BluOS Controller App.

Note: Fixed volume should only be activated if the volume can be controlled on the product the NODE ICON is connected to.

 

[pjug]

Are you using digital passthrough? If you're using the Node volume then I can't imagine you would ever need to worry about going to 0db. If you are using digital passthrough then you would set headroom with the external dac or device performing PEQ. Anyway if you've set passthrough here's what the manual says.

i don't have the Icon, just wondering. Also I was stuck thinking that icon's volume control is analog (like my dac/preamp), but if is before the DAC then yeah the overload distortion seems like a non-issue.

 

[sapphari]

New review on soundstage.
Measurements: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...atid=433:preamplifier-measurements&Itemid=142

Most of this looks pretty good. To me, probably the most concerning measurement is this:

At low input, especially for 16/44, this is awful, no? But is this a weird way to make the measurement, modulating the input, and keeping the volume at max? Is the poor result related to this, since a low volume digital signal has attenuated dynamic range? Someone who is aware of this would provide the unit with a 'stronger' digital signal and modulate level with the volume on the Icon, which would yield a better result, right?

 

[pogo]

@Archimago or @pkane already know more about this.

The fact that no answer has yet been received suggests that the mode of operation of the new MQA process is not yet known.

 

[pjug]

The fact that no answer has yet been received suggests that the mode of operation of the new MQA process is not yet known.

I think it is just that the graphs had a very zoomed in Y axis such that it mislead even the writer (and me too). With a full Y axis I think the graphs would have shown the weak filtering we know QRONO is using. Not sharp filters like the text describes. But for clarification it would be better to ask a SoundStage! person instead of the people you tagged.

 

[pkane]

The fact that no answer has yet been received suggests that the mode of operation of the new MQA process is not yet known.

Answer to what, exactly? Impulse response clearly shows what the new MQA process does to the signal. You obviously don't know or understand this, so why do you keep arguing about it?

 

[GXAlan]

View attachment 455331
At low input, especially for 16/44, this is awful, no?

Here is the RME ADI DAC 2 FS

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - RME ADI-2 DAC FS Digital-to-Analog Converter Measurements

www.soundstagenetwork.com

Side by side: Node Icon Left, RME right. Note X-axis.

I know people hate on QRONO, but the real magic of the Bluesound Node is this:

 

[sapphari]

Good comparison. Do you agree the high distortion is from compressed dynamic range? If so, that's not a great way to perform the measurement. Instead, give it a strong signal and ramp the volume on the equipment being measured.

 

[pogo]

Answer to what, exactly?

They note the discrepancy

This discrepancy may be explained by Bluesound's use of special dynamic filters.

But not applied based on characteristics of the music or anything like that.

We just want to understand exactly how it works and not argue about it.

 

[GXAlan]

Good comparison. Do you agree the high distortion is from compressed dynamic range? If so, that's not a great way to perform the measurement. Instead, give it a strong signal and ramp the volume on the equipment being measured.

Think about low level detail in a recording… it’s not at 0 dBFS. It’s high noise that impacts the measurement but it is a more realistic representation of music.

I think it’s a better example of not getting caught up with the SINAD while still wanting science not hand waving for performance.

QRONO D2A generates some of the most cognitive dissonance. Ardent opposers of the technology likely wouldn’t be able to hear a difference and are consider themselves principled in their stance, consistently ignoring the practical reality of cross marketing leading to more content. Supporters of the technologies may argue that it’s one more option for a digital filter which odds occasionally audible.

Fact of the matter is that there’s only one shipping product with MQA. And it’s a steamer, made by a real company with Android/iOS apps designed with proper privacy policies, full Dirac Live capability and one of the lowest noise performance, which makes an audible difference for high efficiency speakers with less hiss or noise between tracks. I have pointed out that it’s the ONLY option if you want a small footprint and cannot fit a standard sized AVR.

I did buy the Chesky MQA CD copy of their ultimate demonstration disc to give it a listen and comparison to the original…. I simply have been too busy to capture the old and new versions to see what differences exist, if any.

 

[pkane]

This discrepancy may be explained by Bluesound's use of special dynamic filters.

No.

We just want to understand exactly how it works and not argue about it.

Then how about you stop mentioning me and Archimago (who, by the way, doesn't post here on ASR -- go and ask him on his blog).

 

[pjug]

This discrepancy may be explained by Bluesound's use of special dynamic filters.



We just want to understand exactly how it works and not argue about it.

I am pretty sure Soundstage is mistaken that there is a discrepancy. What Soundstage is calling a "brick-wall" filter (dark red trace in first attachmentl) only looks that way because of the scaling of the Y axis. If you do a curve trace of that response, and plot on the same scale as Amir's (2nd attachment), it looks like it will be the slow filter that QRONO uses.

 

[pogo]

Then how about you stop mentioning me and Archimago (who, by the way, doesn't post here on ASR -- go and ask him on his blog).

Now I don't understand anything anymore. First I'm told that I don't understand anything. Then when I ask experts, I don't get a clear answer. At least it's more than a simple impulse response. I was not aware that Archimago is not active here.

 

[sapphari]

Think about low level detail in a recording… it’s not at 0 dBFS. It’s high noise that impacts the measurement but it is a more realistic representation of music.

I think it’s a better example of not getting caught up with the SINAD while still wanting science not hand waving for performance.

Just so we are on the same page, the first few slides here is what I'm referring to.