Bluesound Node Icon Streamer Review

[GXAlan]

Just so we are on the same page, the first few slides here is what I'm referring to.

That first bullet point is key. “Until it reaches the noise floor of the analog components of the DAC (unit as opposed to IC).

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The Fosi ZD3 volume knob is a digital encoder and to my understanding, it’s using the ESS’s internal digital volume.


If you take a look here, I talk about SINAD once you take into context amplifier gain.

Imagine you are at 110 dB SINAD at full signal and 60 dB SINAD at some lower signal, like 0.1V. If the preamp output at 0.1V goes into an amplifier with a certain amount of gain and into a speaker with a certain amount of power, and your volume is 90 dB, then the 60 dB is woefully inadequate. But if that 0.1V generates actual audio volume of say, 40 dB, then your horrible 60 dB SINAD is more than enough to be audibly transparent since your actual signal is only 40 dB.

With this is mind, your goal is to make sure there is minimal noise at idle (the putting your ear next to the tweeter test). Even if you don’t hear the hiss at the listening position, if you walk by the speaker when changing discs or just doing some sort of activity, you will want to minimize that hiss. In a home theater environment with 16 channels, that minor hiss can cumulatively add up as well…

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Hands down, the Bluesound Node Icon is one of the quietest streamers with WiFi, a display, HDMI eARC, Dirac Live in a small footprint.

At 3.7V, the MiniDSP SHD only hits 111 dB SINAD.

Then look at the multitone

Compare the Bluesound to something like a Topping D90 III

And consider the fact that the D90 is a DAC only and the Bluesound Node Icon has a powerful CPU to handle Dirac and streaming, an ADC to allow line input, a subwoofer output and crossover, a fancy display that is larger and potentially radiating more EMI/RFI than a smaller WiiM Ultra screen…

 

[sapphari]

Thanks for the reply. I think I learned something from it. I still think a better way to measure this is to provide a full depth signal and ramp the volume on the unit you are measuring.

 

[GXAlan]

Thanks for the reply. I think I learned something from it. I still think a better way to measure this is to provide a full depth signal and ramp the volume on the unit you are measuring.

The most important thing is consistency, for sure. I don’t disagree that there are different approaches to measurement, but even when you think about Stereophile, consistency is better to allow comparison even if “better” metrics are necessary.

But what I like to ask is if differences in measurements matter?

 

[sapphari]

Completely agree - consistency is the baseline.

If you are asking if differences in the method of measurement matter, I think 100% yes. There wouldn't be so much kurfuffle on here about it if it didn't!

 

[GXAlan]

Completely agree - consistency is the baseline.

If you are asking if differences in the method of measurement matter, I think 100% yes. There wouldn't be so much kurfuffle on here about it if it didn't!

lol. There is a lot of kurfuffle, but I think the 35,000 ft view is to look at measurements as a way to encourage “good engineering” and “keep companies honest” (like verifying published specs against actual specs).

What gets lost, and impacts stuff like resale value or even commercial value, is when people get a little too focused on minutiae. There is not going to be a big audible difference between the RME or the Bluesound Node Icon, unless you have a high gain amp with high efficiency speakers. In my case, I have active speakers, so I don’t get to simply switch to a different amp and the quiet noise floor of the Node Icon is great.

MQA is emotionally charged because it *seems* like a counterintuitive “sloppy engineering” in the setting of an otherwise advanced product. Better would be to see it as a “design choice that is polarizing” and it is OK to see a well engineered station wagon, well engineered sports car, and well engineered golf cart and disagree with the trade-offs the engineers have chosen to make.

 

[sapphari]

I think measurements effectively encourage better engineering and honest spec setting, but they don't completely fix the problem (of poor engineering and misleading specs). Companies are still going to cut corners and fluff specs, because 1) they are not regulated and 2) the market is generally undereducated.

It would have been smart, IMO, for MQA to be a toggle on/off (off engaging traditional filters) for the Icon. That would almost completely resolve the section of the market who 100% will not purchase a product that only uses that filter approach.

End of the day I'm really happy with the Icon's performance in my setup.

 

[antcollinet]

Good comparison. Do you agree the high distortion is from compressed dynamic range? If so, that's not a great way to perform the measurement. Instead, give it a strong signal and ramp the volume on the equipment being measured.

It isn’t distortion when at low output level, it is noise dominated.

Think about it - the noise out of the DAC is fixed (based on the bit depth and the analogue electronics.

So as you reduce the signal level, the SNR gets worse (lower signal, same noise).

If you look at the slope in the chart, for every 10dB lower signal, you get 10dB worse THD+N - exactly as expected.

It doesn’t matter, because if you can’t hear the noise in the silence between tracks with the output at full, then you also can’t hear the noise at low signal level.

 

[sapphari]

You are right, distortion is not the correct term. The point you make, that signal correlates with the measurement, is the problem. This is a measurement of the source, not the Icon.

 

[antcollinet]

You are right, distortion is not the correct term. The point you make, that signal correlates with the measurement, is the problem. This is a measurement of the source, not the Icon.

No, it isn’t. It is a measurement of the DAC of the icon.

It basically tells you something about the the noise level out of the DAC, and the output level at which distortion gets larger than noise.

 

[vddobrev]

Thanks for the review! I recently purchased a Node Icon and can offer my perspective on what made it a no-brainer for my particular use case and why its price didn’t seem out of line for me (a recently retired married guy in a smallish house). I use the Icon along with an Apollon Purifi 1ET6525SA ST amp, KEF LS-50 Meta speakers, and a Bluesound Pulse Sub+. The Icon and amp live out-of-sight in a cabinet.

1. It runs BlueOS. After having an older Node and an NAD C399 with BlueOS module, my wife and I have gotten used to and actually like the app despite its “quirks” and are loathe to change. The app has been rock-solid stable, runs well on iPhone, and is frequently updated and well-supported.
2. It integrates wirelessly with the Pulse Sub+. This is a great sub for me. I have in-home auditioned at least six other subs and the combination of form, size, and sound of the Pulse hit the sweet spot. Because of its location, running a sub cable is out of the question. I’ve tried three wireless adapters and found them either unreliable or to hum/buzz. In contrast, the integrated wi-fi connection to Bluesound devices is reliable and silent.
3. It has integrated Dirac support. I find it really easy to calibrate for various listening positions and love the ability to switch instantly between up to five filters in BlueOS. (I don’t think I need to convince ASR members of the benefits of equilization!)
4. It has an IR in jack. I know, “a what??” My hi-fi doubles as an AV receiver and I love the ability to control the TV, Roku box, and Icon with a single Logitech Harmony remote when streaming movies or watching OTA TV.

Of course, now I’m bummed to discover from this review that my new Icon has a sub-optimal reconstruction filter, which keeps it out of the “recommended” category. Can someone help me understand the impact of this filter choice? Is it more like “for $1K you should expect a better filter even though the sound difference is inaudible” or more like “this unit would sound better if the filter didn’t suck” or even as one commenter implied, “this crummy filter will fry your tweeters”?

Thanks! --Mark

I have a question related to Pulse Sub+ integration.
1. Is your Node Icon connected to your amp via RCA or via XLR.
2. If XLR, what are the setting you have for the Pulse Sub+, crossover, trim, phase?

Asking because I cannot get good integration with my Node Icon when connected via XLR to my amp. The sub is out of sync, no matter the settings, i.e. 0 degrees or 180 degrees.

 

[Mark411]

The Icon is connected to the amp via XLR. Sub+ is connected to the Icon wirelessly through BluOS/wifi. Crossover is 80 Hz. Trim is around 0 dB, although I adjust it often on-the-fly. Phase is 0. To be honest, I've never been *quite* satisfied with any subwoofer setup I've had over several decades. I'm constrained to a single smallish sub and only a couple possible locations for it in my living room, so that's probably part of it. I was really looking forward to having the Icon and the Pulse Sub+ together because I thought I would be able to use Dirac Live to help optimize the sub's integration with the main speakers. But unfortunately (and inexplicably) I can't use Dirac on the sub when it's connected via BluOS/wifi. It has to be hard wired. A big reason I bought the Sub+ was to have it wirelessly connect to the Icon AND be able to use Dirac for filtering. Grr.

 

[vddobrev]

The Icon is connected to the amp via XLR. Sub+ is connected to the Icon wirelessly through BluOS/wifi. Crossover is 80 Hz. Trim is around 0 dB, although I adjust it often on-the-fly. Phase is 0. To be honest, I've never been *quite* satisfied with any subwoofer setup I've had over several decades. I'm constrained to a single smallish sub and only a couple possible locations for it in my living room, so that's probably part of it. I was really looking forward to having the Icon and the Pulse Sub+ together because I thought I would be able to use Dirac Live to help optimize the sub's integration with the main speakers. But unfortunately (and inexplicably) I can't use Dirac on the sub when it's connected via BluOS/wifi. It has to be hard wired. A big reason I bought the Sub+ was to have it wirelessly connect to the Icon AND be able to use Dirac for filtering. Grr.

Thanks for the reply, appreciated.
In my setup, XLR out is not in sync with the sub, whether 0 or 180 phase, but with RCA out, it is in sync at phase 0 and trim 0dB seems level matched. Also, with XLR, I have to bump the PULSE SUB+ to +6dB trim to get somewhat the same level.
If you are curious (as I am) will you be able to connect the Icon with RCA, and see what you get, just for the experiment?
I just sent a ticket to the Bluesound team to see what they say.

Edit: Node Icon and PULSE SUB+ are both wired to the router.
2nd Edit: With my amp (Anthem MCA525 Gen2) I get different levels, where XLR is about 6dB louder compared to RCA.

 

[Mark411]

I could give that a try, but not until later in the week. But I'm wondering if what you are experiencing is just the normal result of the output levels of the balanced and unbalanced outputs of the Icon not being the same and/or the input gain between the two types of inputs on your amp not being the same. I'm a bit out of my depth here, but not sure I'd necessarily expect the sound level of the main speakers to be the same (at the same volume setting) if I switched between XLR and RCA.

 

[vddobrev]

I could give that a try, but not until later in the week. But I'm wondering if what you are experiencing is just the normal result of the output levels of the balanced and unbalanced outputs of the Icon not being the same and/or the input gain between the two types of inputs on your amp not being the same. I'm a bit out of my depth here, but not sure I'd necessarily expect the sound level of the main speakers to be the same (at the same volume setting) if I switched between XLR and RCA.

Thanks, appreciated! I am clear on the level difference, and it is expceted. It is not that, the sub simply sounds out of sync, regardless of trim level, and I tried 0 to +9dB, where 0 is almost non present, +6 is about right, and +9 was overly loud, but stil out of sync, 0 or 180 phase.

 

[Mark411]

Got it. I'm not sure that I could easily tell the difference between the sub being in or out of sync by ear. On the subs I've owned, I've switched back and forth and often don't hear much of a difference and/or the differences aren't consistent between songs. So I usually go with the setting that seems to sound louder/fuller at the time and call it a day. Which is weird, because I'd *expect* it to make a large difference, right?

 

[sapphari]

@Mark411 I think many people have similar experience to you - optimizing phase by listening to music is difficult. One simpler strategy you can use is to play a test tone at or near the crossover between the mains and sub (eg 80hz sine wave) and as you adjust phase, listen for the highest output (which happens when phase is aligned). Be sure to move your head around the listening position, so you are not potentially fooled by a room node. This can also be done with a mic for a little less subjectivity.

 

[vddobrev]

@Mark411 - please don't experiment, my problem is solved.
A complete reset of the Node Icon and PUSLE SUB+ did the trick. Now they are in sync, but I still need to increase the subwoofer trim to +6dB, which is expected.

 

[Mark411]

Awesome!

 

[Mark411]

@Mark411 I think many people have similar experience to you - optimizing phase by listening to music is difficult. One simpler strategy you can use is to play a test tone at or near the crossover between the mains and sub (eg 80hz sine wave) and as you adjust phase, listen for the highest output (which happens when phase is aligned). Be sure to move your head around the listening position, so you are not potentially fooled by a room node. This can also be done with a mic for a little less subjectivity.

Thanks for the tip! This is nicely quantitative, just what I'd expect from the folks on this forum!

 

[vicens]

Good afternoon, today I installed an icon, before I had the node 130 and the difference in sound is noticeable in favor of the icon, using it through the DAC of my Copland CSA70 there is not that much difference, where the difference is noticeable and using the DAC of the icon itself, I just ordered the microphone to calibrate the Dirac, to me there is another improvement.