Even Kef uses that phrasing.
“With numerous technological breakthroughs, LS50 took the original LS3/5a studio monitor concept and brought it into the living room.“
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BBC speakers
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
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Even Kef uses that phrasing.
“With numerous technological breakthroughs, LS50 took the original LS3/5a studio monitor concept and brought it into the living room.“
That’s funny marketing copy. At the time the LS50 was released, the LS3/5a were mostly in old mens’ living rooms and closets.
Even Kef uses that phrasing.
“With numerous technological breakthroughs, LS50 took the original LS3/5a studio monitor concept and brought it into the living room.“
MAB
Major Contributor
Yes, they do say that.
Even Kef uses that phrasing.
“With numerous technological breakthroughs, LS50 took the original LS3/5a studio monitor concept and brought it into the living room.“
I have a hard time linking the measurements or sound of the LS50 to the LS3/5a, just because KEF's marketing team said it!I'm not in agreement, the speakers are night and day different. And even more, one sounds great, the other not so good at all.
benanders
Senior Member
Yes, they do say that.
I'm not in agreement, the speakers are night and day different. And even more, one sounds great, the other not so good at all.
Can’t be positive because I’m not him, but @MAB I think you missed the intent of the original comment from @Ron Texas . You also seem to be misunderstanding KEF’s insinuation quoted from their website.
Would it have been clearer if wording was “
A crucial part of the science in speaker design is defining target audience expectations and devising, then producing and distributing, a design that can hit said expectations better than competition. Many times I see that part lost on folks who think measurements = science-and-done
Assuredly I’m not trying to be antagonistic, but many convos at ASR would go differently if this concept were more often acknowledged. I don’t think anyone’s meant to suggest the two models perform similarly, as that much should be obvious.
MAB
Major Contributor
I wasn't responding to Ron! I was responding to KEF's assertions. Ron's post had nothing to do with mine!Can’t be positive because I’m not him, but @MAB I think you missed the intent of the original comment from @Ron Texas . You also seem to be misunderstanding KEF’s insinuation quoted from their website.
Would it have been clearer if wording was “spiritualmarket base / consumer / buyer profilesuccessoranalogue”?
A crucial part of the science in speaker design is defining target audience expectations and devising, then producing and distributing, a design that can hit said expectations better than competition. Many times I see that part lost on folks who think measurements = science-and-done
Assuredly I’m not trying to be antagonistic, but many convos at ASR would go differently if this concept were more often acknowledged. I don’t think anyone’s meant to suggest the two models perform similarly, as that much should be obvious.
My comment is based on what I understand of the history and the design targets for the two speakers.
Rather than misunderstanding a post, I possibly just have my facts wrong.
And, regarding the science part, I never measured the LS3/5A but I can't wait.
benanders
Senior Member
Aha got it. Thank yo for clarifying @MAB .
In that case I misunderstood. And doesn’t seem like mistaken facts on your part.
I don’t think KEF means to insinuate specific performance metrics of the LS50 mirror or parallel those of the BBC series. KEF found a way to mass-produce a consistent sound highly appropriate for its target expectations, and do so across a considerable span of time at a relatively affordable cost (lest there be little point in mass production). Hence the comparison to LS3/5a’s, though I too could be misinterpreting KEF’s intent.
Having heard a number of pairs of both these speakers, I can attest both seem to do an excellent job of hitting the [different] expectations for which they aim (modern price of BBC’s not included as a variable, of course).
Funny thing, the general assumption being test results [measurements] from a single unit are applicable to most/all examples of that given model. With precise engineering, fabrication and assembly, this should be a given. But counting on that requires us to discount the very incentive behind the design in LS3/5a’s.
If I’m not mistaken, to make sure their measurements adhere to certain principles of the design, would require at least two stereo pairs rather than one. Conclusions from one pair on stereophonic performance would require a certain amount of extrapolation if applied to the model as a whole. But that’s not the same as me saying extrapolation would/should be inaccurate or misleading. Two pairs would still be a tragically limited sample size from an experimental design standpoint, just far better than one pair = zero replication.
But we work with what we’ve got, eh!?
DSJR
Major Contributor
Fascinating that yours lack the 1.5kHz peak which got worse and worse as the eighties went on until the re-design. I have numerous HiFi Choice plots as evidence and the Falcon standard article as tested in Stereophile.
The 70's examples were a pig to calibrate. In the mid 70's and long before the days of computing, I watched as (then) Audiomaster's Robin Marshall measured every single capacitor by hand and graded them and despite this and KEF supplying the B110's at the end of one of the tolerances as this speaker demanded, the all too regular batches of twenty or so pairs having to come back from Hirst Labs for adjustment after failing the response test, being adjusted and sent back for measurements via our company van. Maybe Rogers did it differently, but KEF were I'm sure, far too busy to cherry pick for just one company making this loss leader model (nobody made money out of the 3/5A back then I was told). The later eleven ohm version came to the assemblers as ready-built KEF Kits although Harbeths were apparently finer in tweeter level adjustments than the others but I have no proof of this other than being shown the crossovers. In any case, The Harbeth P3 originally easily out-performed the later 3/5A model in direct comparison in free space.
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I know! It might have a peak when run under the NFS but the idea that both speakers roughly match each other when I made sure the distances were equal but roughly tried to be center (I had my speakers in listening position and then pointed them inward, using a piece of a paper as my distance measurement. So I just had a UMIK-2 on its tripod roughly at the same distance.
DSJR
Major Contributor
I forget the centre line tolerance on the BBC spec ones (those the BBC took for themselves with XLR sockets, not the general prosumer models).
One thing that I liked when I was using my 11 Ohm LS3/5a pair as desktop speakers was that in near field use the drive units integrated very well, unlike quite a few other small speakers that only sound right at greater distance.
I've tried to explain to myself my fondness for the BBC-school speakers using all kinds of audiophile-approved terminology, but it turns out the best I can do is to admit simply that they come closer recreating what I hear in the concert hall than any other speakers I'm aware of. To my ears, they simply make musical instruments sound like themselves. I don't really care about "what the artist intended" or about revealing the recording in forensic detail; I just want to hear the music sound as closely as possible to live, unamplified instruments. That's what my speakers do (Harbeth Compact 7 ES3, Graham Chartwell LS6 and Harbeth P3 ESR). That said, I haven't heard every speaker out there, so maybe there is something that could change my mind.
I sent in my Rogers LS3/5a. I will say that in the same room, the Meyer Sound Amie’s give me much more of the concert hall experience since I seem to make my room larger. The LS3/5a gave the effect of raising the phantom center higher in position, which is probably a HRTF effect from the frequency irregularities.
The Amies are the first active speakers where I has happy to sell my Marantz reference gear
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They probably set a standard in their time.
In technology, typically we go "you get 2 out of 3", the design aspirations typically being (1) best performance and feature set (2) quick time to market (3) cost competitive.
The BBC speakers were one of those rare things that hit all 3 at their time. But then again, time moves on, and an ultimate reference they most certainly are not anymore. Note KEF used the LS moniker when they came out with the LS50 to latch on to the legend, and perhaps move the bar to Y2K.
There were many British companies latching on to the LS legend, I don't remember them all. My dad had one version from Spendor, I recall. They were good!
In technology, typically we go "you get 2 out of 3", the design aspirations typically being (1) best performance and feature set (2) quick time to market (3) cost competitive.
The BBC speakers were one of those rare things that hit all 3 at their time. But then again, time moves on, and an ultimate reference they most certainly are not anymore. Note KEF used the LS moniker when they came out with the LS50 to latch on to the legend, and perhaps move the bar to Y2K.
There were many British companies latching on to the LS legend, I don't remember them all. My dad had one version from Spendor, I recall. They were good!
Chazz6
Active Member
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There is strict BBC, said to follow the precise requirements that the BBC laid down (except these evolved...).
Then there is the spirit of BBC, which I take to be sealed two-way bookshelf speakers that aim for midrange excellence and natural, no coloration.
All I can say is that my Spendor A1's are fantastic. Somewhat pricey, but you can look for bargains. They are a current model, so much less worry about old capacitors, disintegrating surrounds, etc. that comes with vintage BBC speakers.
Then there is the spirit of BBC, which I take to be sealed two-way bookshelf speakers that aim for midrange excellence and natural, no coloration.
All I can say is that my Spendor A1's are fantastic. Somewhat pricey, but you can look for bargains. They are a current model, so much less worry about old capacitors, disintegrating surrounds, etc. that comes with vintage BBC speakers.
FWIW, it looks like even BBC had moved on. The monitors in the BBC Radio Outside Broadcasts van, at least in 2014, are ME Geithain RL901Ks (and not even British). See this post.
www.audiosciencereview.com
Which speakers are the Classical Music Pros using?
Deadmau5 has some nice monitor collection https://equipboard.com/pros/deadmau5/#studio-monitors Source: https://www.magneticmag.com/2016/05/deadmau5-shows-off-the-completion-of-his-new-home-studio-finally/ Also beautiful Blackbird studio with ATC monitors: Source...
www.audiosciencereview.com
At the recent HIFI show at Ascot London, Rogers were showing off a pair of LS3/5A, sitting atop a matching powered sub-bass unit. The subs, looked like stands at first glance.
They sounded very good and were pretty loud without any hint of compression.
But frankly, they end up too expensive!
Nostalgia is good, but I wouldn't pay that much for it.
The close-up picture is not Rogers, but Musical Fidelity. Falcon Acoustics also makes a killer version.
They sounded very good and were pretty loud without any hint of compression.
But frankly, they end up too expensive!
Nostalgia is good, but I wouldn't pay that much for it.
The close-up picture is not Rogers, but Musical Fidelity. Falcon Acoustics also makes a killer version.
Genelec now.FWIW, it looks like even BBC had moved on. The monitors in the BBC Radio Outside Broadcasts van, at least in 2014, are ME Geithain RL901Ks (and not even British). See this post.
Which speakers are the Classical Music Pros using?
Deadmau5 has some nice monitor collection https://equipboard.com/pros/deadmau5/#studio-monitors Source: https://www.magneticmag.com/2016/05/deadmau5-shows-off-the-completion-of-his-new-home-studio-finally/ Also beautiful Blackbird studio with ATC monitors: Source...
Keith
DSJR
Major Contributor
Unless their new broadcasting House presenting studios have been refitted again, they seemed full of Dynaudios. I gather Sky TV in the UK, when they refitted all their editing suites some years back, replaced the editing suite LS5/9's (and a pair of Spendor SP2/3's with knackered hardened surrounds) with Genelecs apparently.
Be warned, many of the later 'BBC Designed' models since the 70's were balanced for their own use alone (and if said voicing/balancing could be sold outside of their usage, so much the better). The LS5/9 and I suspect the large 5/8 were balanced to suit the sound engineers working with them for hours on end and a 'flat neutral' response was NOT what they wanted it seems, this from an engineer at Broadcasting House back then. Maybe the poly cones had issues at the top of their range the 'upper mid suckout' made less of an issue (the plot I have of the Graham 5/9 shows 3kHz issues).
The attached pdf of a 1983 HiFi News review of the time, shows the Meridian M20 with the exact opposite upper mid response. got to say i really liked these when I heard them back in 1985.
Their new place in Salford is I believe exclusively Gen.
Keith
Keith
If you like that sound signature you can buy a pair of kef concertos, have the bass you require and the mids and highs similar to the ls3/5a's. You will also save thousands.
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