Cheapest Full Range 20hz - 20khz Speakers?

[Harmonie]

Magnat Monitor Supreme 2002

• Price:€205/each
• Frequency range: 18 - 40,000 Hz
  https://www.amazon.de/-/en/D14481031-Magnat-Monitor-Supreme/dp/B00GUGD992/

Nice figures for 2x8" woofers
I'd like to see the SPL/Frequency graphic measurement ....

 

[tuga]

Both the metrics you mentioned are really just a part of the three parameters I previously listed; that define (high) "audio fidelity". If we wanted to start nitpicking, 'time-based errors' would be the forth and very last category to consider. I did not mention the domain of time-based errors, as they are the least audible in today's digital world and usually not a problem.

The (audible) main differences between the (DSP-driven) 'JBL M2' and the 'Revel Ultima2 Salon2' are as follows:
(-) narrower dispersion
(-) lower directivity [anechoic] at HF
(+) wider optimal listening window
(+) lower distortion at higher max. SPL

If I recall correctly [please correct me, if I'm wrong], the listening experience you are referring to has not been conducted scientifically by any means and thus cannot be reproduced. Dr. Floyd Toole mentioned it might have been the wider dispersion of the Salon2, which ultimately got it a few more votes but again, we have no precise information about the listeners' seat arrangements, the listeners' (audio) background and the room itself; which all are very important facts to take into account for reasoning.

The 'JBL M2' is a least-compromise design and "good enough" for audio professionals who record, mix and master the music - including 'classical' genres - we, "audiophiles", love to listen to. It is a bit hard to imagine that Dr. Sean Olive and his team did opt for this design if it was "crippled" that much; especially when taking the protocol into account they follow at HARMAN, before a (reference) loudspeaker receives its final pass-mark.

However, the most important thing is that we still enjoy the music - more than our gear!

Interesting that you mark "narrower dispersion" as a disadvantage. For me it's a benefit.
Max SPL seems to have rated highly in the design brief:

the M2 provides in-room frequency response of 20 Hz to 40 kHz, and an extraordinary 123 dB maximum SPL to meet the demanding music, cinema and broadcast production requirements for impactful dynamic range

Hardly any classical music pros use JBL speakers. The M2 was designed for loudness and, being a Harman, to produced a pretty Spinorama.
But a Spinorama is manifestly insuficient to characterise performance.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Revel is a 4-way (150Hz, 575Hz, 2.3kHz), it uses two drivers to cover the same range as the M2's mid-woofer.

 

[LearningToSmile]

Nice figures for 2x8" woofers
I'd like to see the SPL/Frequency graphic measurement ....

Yeah, Magnat is a pretty cheap brand, I highly doubt those are actual measurements with any sort of -3/-6/-10dB significance - instead it's probably something like every cheap pair of headphones stating the frequency response being 20Hz-20kHz. Maybe it's capable of passing a 20Hz signal but I'd be surprised if it was in audible range.

Case in point, here are measurements of the older 2000 model, which was claimed as 18Hz-38Hz:

 

[detlev24]

[...] Hardly any classical music pros use JBL speakers. [...]

Orchestral Film Score Recording Returns to New York City with Monitor System from JBL Professional by HARMAN

Just one example but again, this shall not become a 'JBL M2' thread.

That's a film soundtrack, not an orchestral music recording. The only thing in common is the orchestra. [...]

Really? The DiMenna Center for Classical Music | RECORDINGS

 

[thefsb]

Please also consider that to reach linearly 20 Hz at your listening position you usually don't need loudspeakers that have their -3dB do deep as due to room gain those frequencies are usually significantly boosted, so often a -3dB point of around 30 Hz is enough.

This is a good point. I measured the following in room 18' x 24' x 10' using Asscend Sierra Tower which are $2300/pair. It's not 20-20k but more like 24.

The three lines are the three different seating positions on the sofa.

 

[thefsb]

Are you asking for 20 to 20 because someone suggested it, or do you have actual needs? Very few males can hear anywhere near 20K and only when they were young. Very little music is below 60.

My 4-string bass guitar in standard tuning plays down to 41 Hz. 5-string is common now and plays down to 31 Hz.

(Don't listen to the horrible lyrics on that song!)

 

[tuga]

Orchestral Film Score Recording Returns to New York City with Monitor System from JBL Professional by HARMAN

Just one example but again, this shall not become a 'JBL M2' thread.

That's a film soundtrack, not an orchestral music recording. The only thing in common is the orchestra.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ers-are-the-classical-music-pros-using.12225/

 

[Wes]

Von Schweikert VR-33 will get you real extremely close for $3750 a pair.

Martin

have those been measured?

 

[richard12511]

That's a film soundtrack, not an orchestral music recording. The only thing in common is the orchestra.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ers-are-the-classical-music-pros-using.12225/

Why does it matter if it’s a film soundtrack? If anything, I’d say that’s more important, given the scale and dollars at play.

 

[Martin]

have those been measured?

Von Schweikert used to publish measurements of their speakers and recent reviews show some of their current speakers measure quite well. I’ve not found measurements on the VR-33 but I’d love to see them measured. I’ve heard them on more than one occasion and they sounded very nice to me and could hit low organ pedal notes with ease. They use close placement to the rear wall for bass reinforcement. I don’t think you can beat them on price.

Martin

 

[egellings]

Getting down to 20Hz ain't cheap.

 

[tuga]

Why does it matter if it’s a film soundtrack? If anything, I’d say that’s more important, given the scale and dollars at play.

Different requirements and expectations.

Classical is generally recorded in a documental fashion, to recreate the illusion of sitting in the audience. Soundtracks are about enhancing the picture...and explosions!

Cue the violins.

 

[richard12511]

Different requirements and expectations.

Classical is generally recorded in a documental fashion, to recreate the illusion of sitting in the audience. Soundtracks are about enhancing the picture...and explosions!

Cue the violins.

Regardless of the goal, it still seems like the most accurate monitors would give you the best chance of meeting that goal. No?

 

[infinitesymphony]

Here they are again. For the low, low price of around $4,400 USD (before shipping) you can get a used pair of these:

Tannoy System 215 DMT II (-3dB @ 35 Hz)

 

[Shazb0t]

The M2 was designed for loudness and, being a Harman, to produced a pretty Spinorama.
But a Spinorama is manifestly insuficient to characterise performance.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Revel is a 4-way (150Hz, 575Hz, 2.3kHz), it uses two drivers to cover the same range as the M2's mid-woofer.

Would you kindly site some evidence to explain these statements? I would like to see the testing done on both of these speakers which specifically proves the manifest sufficiency which the M2 lacks. That would be helpful for my understanding, thanks.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

this is the result of my KEF R300 in a 2.8 mts x 3.2 mts room, near-mid field use, my r300 can go pretty low

 

[carewser]

I defy anyone to show me speakers that offer more bang for the buck than my speakers which offer not only the widest frequency response but also the flattest even though they don't go all the way down to 20hz but for ~$800 US, they still strike me as a remarkable deal and get pretty close at 27hz so they're frequency response is 27hz-22khz and most impressively +/-1.5db

Take that Genelec!

 

[Eetu]

I defy anyone to show me speakers that offer more bang for the buck than my speakers which offer not only the widest frequency response but also the flattest even though they don't go all the way down to 20hz but for ~$800 US, they still strike me as a remarkable deal and get pretty close at 27hz so they're frequency response is 27hz-22khz and most impressively +/-1.5db

Take that Genelec!

They don't exist until you give us the model name

 

[jcebedo11]

They don't exist until you give us the model name

It can be done buying used. Mackie HR624 ($300) + SVS PB1000 ($400). The mackies specs +- 1.5 db from 49hz - 20 khz. SVS has been measured +- 2db from 23hz to 100hz

 

[sigbergaudio]

It can be done buying used. Mackie HR624 ($300) + SVS PB1000 ($400). The mackies specs +- 1.5 db from 49hz - 20 khz. SVS has been measured +- 2db from 23hz to 100hz

I think the idea was to do it without a subwoofer.