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8" full range driver paired with woofer for outdoor and indoor movable system

CATY

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hello,
i want to build pair a 8" full range vented enclosure with a woofer/subwoofer. the full range is to be used inside a lively cafe, and then paired with the woofer/sub for outdoor events/partys (around 30-50 people). said woofer/sub would be in a separate cabinet.
for the 8" full range driver i was thinking of using jbl 328c (ojas fan), but i cant find the detailed TS parameters for it. otherwise maybe the dayton audio PS220-8 8" neo driver. also curious about the SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8" from amazing reviews, but the price is so low its making me doubt it. i have previously used lii audio fast 8", also vented enclosure (around 65L), but the highs were piercing ins ome frequencies. the bass was good though, but never fully tested for large outdoor parties.
for the woofer/sub i have no idea, i cant even figure out if this sort of a combination makes any sense or if it would be a woofer or a sub.
i cant find many configurations pairing a 8" full range with a woofer, is that because the full range already covers the lows? should is be a subwoofer? i thought for a outdoor event the lows would get drained out and hence would want to pair it with a woofer/sub. lii audio has a configuration with of 8" full range and woofer but it is on an open baffle.
 

Anton D

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I have heard this one, but not measured, so no telling how it really sounds, but I thought it did OK in its application.


Plus, sighted listening bias.
 
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CATY

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thanks anton! did you hear it paired with a woofer or sub? or just that 8" full range on its own?
 

Vladimir Filevski

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While Dayton Audio PS220-8 and SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8 are (single) fullrange units, JBL 328c is a two-way coaxial speaker (not single fullrange!) with integrated crossover. Dayton Audio and JBL are too expensive, and SB Acosutics has not high enough efficiency, so I would suggest excellent but low cost true fullrange unit Sica 8D1,5CS, with 95 dB/2.83V/1m and 130 Wrms. It needs a subwoofer.
https://sica.it/prodotto/8-d-15-cs/
 

Anton D

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thanks anton! did you hear it paired with a woofer or sub? or just that 8" full range on its own?
Full range on its own and with a subwoofer. Obvious limitation for absolute dynamic range and frequency response at top and bottom, but for, say, vocals and acoustic small groupings, quite fun. (Emphasis on fun/goofing off.) You know that old saying, "Get the midrange right? They do! Subjectively speaking, of course.)

Oh, also as the middle drive in a pair of those Pure Audio Project speakers. It ran full range and open baffle woofers above and blow.

I don't own any, but those Pure Audio Projects seem like they would be loads of fun for quick switch in and switch out for non-scientific listening comparisons.
 
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CATY

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Full range on its own and with a subwoofer. Obvious limitation for absolute dynamic range and frequency response at top and bottom, but for, say, vocals and acoustic small groupings, quite fun. (Emphasis on fun/goofing off.) You know that old saying, "Get the midrange right? They do! Subjectively speaking, of course.)

Oh, also as the middle drive in a pair of those Pure Audio Project speakers. It ran full range and open baffle woofers above and blow.

I don't own any, but those Pure Audio Projects seem like they would be loads of fun for quick switch in and switch out for non-scientific listening comparisons.
wowza the full range drivers on pure audio projects are spensive! ok thanks, so sounds like it isnt bad to pair a 8" vented full range with a subwoofer
 
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CATY

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While Dayton Audio PS220-8 and SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8 are (single) fullrange units, JBL 328c is a two-way coaxial speaker (not single fullrange!) with integrated crossover. Dayton Audio and JBL are too expensive, and SB Acosutics has not high enough efficiency, so I would suggest excellent but low cost true fullrange unit Sica 8D1,5CS, with 95 dB/2.83V/1m and 130 Wrms. It needs a subwoofer.
https://sica.it/prodotto/8-d-15-cs/
vladimir! thanks ! when you say the SB has not high enough efficiency, does that mean the qts is too high (.45)? i.e. it wouldnt be usable with qb3 or other alignments? or what do you mean by "not high enough efficiency"? sorry i am new to this.

for the jbl, that actually makes sense how they go so low and flat on their frequency response chart then. and also maybe why i cant even find a FS figure for it? also, now that i look at the photos i can see the integrated crossover.

also, for the sica, where would i crossover to the sub? if the jbl 328c was within budget, would you suggest it on its own or with a sub as well?
 

Vladimir Filevski

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SB has only 92 dB/2.83V/1m sensitivity (efficiency), and Sica has 95 dB/2.83V/1m sensitivity (efficiency) - it has nothing to do with Qts parameter. It means that for the same SPL (Sound Pressure Level) SB needs 2 times more amplifier power than Sica. But SB needs 260 W to match the same SPL done by Sica with 130 W - and that is impossible because SB will destroy itself in seconds (max power for SB is only 40 W).
Sica 8D1,5CS should be crossed at 80 Hz to the subwoofer.
 
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mhardy6647

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There have been oh-so-many good sounding 8 inch "fullrange" drivers made over the past six or seven decades...
 
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CATY

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There have been oh-so-many good sounding 8 inch "fullrange" drivers made over the past six or seven decades...
thanks mhardy! which ones (8" or larger) would you recommend for a one way system to cover the most frequencies possible?
 

mhardy6647

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Well... that's much harder. I suppose two considerations are power handling and treble extension. I guess the main reason I posted a somewhat worthlessly ;) vague comment was to imply don't overpay for decent sound reinforcement in a challenging environment!

I am a long term fan of the little Electrovoice "Wolverine" LS-8, a very well made, sensitive, and very pleasant sounding "fullrange" driver using a whizzer cone and an AlNiCo magnet. Long OOP, but sold for decades and not hard to find (I believe I have 5 of them in various places at my house, maybe even 1 or 2 more). The EV SP8B would be considered better (and it is), but are more pricey. The LS-8 is not terribly extended, but very pleasant to listen to. It does have limited power handling capability, which isn't a real problem, but could become one if too much amplifier power were on tap for them.



Fostex has made a plethora of 8" "fullrange" drivers. Some are well balanced, some are (to me) unacceptably bright/harsh sounding. Some require exotic enclosures to provide respectable bass. The FE207E was a personal favorite, but has been OOP for quite a few years now. Not sure how common they are on the used market.


(Rear ported 1 ft^3 enclosure. The shielded FE-207E has a high enough Qts to provide reasonable bass in such a simple alignment. Its nonshielded progenitor, the FE-206E, did not.)
 

Vladimir Filevski

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There have been oh-so-many good sounding 8 inch "fullrange" drivers made over the past six or seven decades...
OP needs 8" fullrange for sound reinforcement, not for domestic hi-fi.
Electro-Voice "Wolverine" LS-8 has only 20 W power rating.
Fostex FE-207 has only 30 w power rating.
 

mhardy6647

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OP needs 8" fullrange for sound reinforcement, not for domestic hi-fi.
Electro-Voice "Wolverine" LS-8 has only 20 W power rating.
Fostex FE-207 has only 30 w power rating.
Thoroughly understood, and disclaimed.
Note the sensitivity of these will only require a few watts to fill a large space.
 
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CATY

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sorry i am a bit confused, so what would be a good 8" driver for a vented box? im ok with going to like 40 liters (1.4 ft3), given that i want that single driver to cover the most frequencies as possible (im ignoring the sub for now)

i dont want to have to buy off the secondary market
 

mhardy6647

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i dont want to have to buy off the secondary market
OK, fair enough.
possibly (???)...
pricey, though.


EDIT:

Some other options:
 

Vladimir Filevski

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Thoroughly understood, and disclaimed.
Note the sensitivity of these will only require a few watts to fill a large space.
?
Mind you, OP wants:
for outdoor events/partys (around 30-50 people).

More watts will fill large space with even more SPL.
Have you ever done a outdoor event/party for 50 people? And for 500 people? And for 5000 people? I am doing exactly that for the last 20 years - I do know what are the requirements for outdoor events, so I can assure you that 20 watts are not enough for 50 people outdoor party.
 

ppataki

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hello,
i want to build pair a 8" full range vented enclosure with a woofer/subwoofer. the full range is to be used inside a lively cafe, and then paired with the woofer/sub for outdoor events/partys (around 30-50 people). said woofer/sub would be in a separate cabinet.
for the 8" full range driver i was thinking of using jbl 328c (ojas fan), but i cant find the detailed TS parameters for it. otherwise maybe the dayton audio PS220-8 8" neo driver. also curious about the SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8" from amazing reviews, but the price is so low its making me doubt it. i have previously used lii audio fast 8", also vented enclosure (around 65L), but the highs were piercing ins ome frequencies. the bass was good though, but never fully tested for large outdoor parties.
for the woofer/sub i have no idea, i cant even figure out if this sort of a combination makes any sense or if it would be a woofer or a sub.
i cant find many configurations pairing a 8" full range with a woofer, is that because the full range already covers the lows? should is be a subwoofer? i thought for a outdoor event the lows would get drained out and hence would want to pair it with a woofer/sub. lii audio has a configuration with of 8" full range and woofer but it is on an open baffle.

The SBs are really excellent fullrange drivers, see my related projects below:


However I would only recommend them if you have ample DSP capability (Dirac, ARC, etc. or at least REW) - as you can see on the FR graphs its response is quite uneven without correction

With no DSP I would recommend the Markaudio CHN110 or the Alpair 12p or the Alpair 10p - those have a relatively flat-ish response and are enjoyable without correction as well
A general advice: take a look at the FR graph of any full range driver - it will give you a good idea about how it will sound (e.g. if the highs will pierce your ears or not)
 

Vladimir Filevski

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The SBs are really excellent fullrange drivers, see my related projects below:
...
With no DSP I would recommend the Markaudio CHN110 or the Alpair 12p or the Alpair 10p
You are making the same mistake as mhardy6647 above - OP needs 8" fullrange for outdoor sound reinforcement, not for domestic hi-fi.
 

voodooless

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This seems like a bad idea. Why use a fullrange driver with very narrow high frequency directivity for something like a cafe or for a party. None of these alternatives can handle any significant amount of power, and the sweet spot will be very narrow. For a cafe, you want wide dispersion and for a party you want it a bit more controlled and decent power handling (even with subs).

As for sensitivity, it’s best to ignore the rated number and actually simulate the thing. Where it counts is the the bass, and it will lose quite a few dBs down there. The mentioned Sica driver is “only” 89 dB efficient there. Haven said that, if you really must use a fullrange driver, that Sica is probably still the best choice from all the drivers mentioned here.
 
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